Raiders Defense

[NightTrainLane]

On 12/16/2017 at 7:03 AM, big_palooka said:

You're kidding right? Just because they won last year, doesn't mean his stamp wasn't there. The team was basic and vanilla on both sides of the ball. The difference was schedule and Carr for whatever reason playing at an All Pro level.

So if the Raiders go 0-3 and look lifeless, is that cause enough for you to want to move on from JDR?

No I'm not kidding. I disagree with that being the imprint he put on the team last year. 

Like I said, evaluation will be done at the end of the year.

And moving on from a coach isn't just about firing someone.

Edited December 18, 2017 by NightTrainLane

[Darbsk]

On 15/12/2017 at 9:58 PM, big_palooka said:

Garrard and Leftwhich were a serviceable pair at QB. They had a elite run game. And a defense full of talents at every level. 

Fact is, he let go of a decent OC. Hired an OC that wasn't ready. Held onto a poor DC for too long. Things an HC should recognize. But my main issue is his overall is the team has his stamp on it. Basic, bland, vanilla, whatever you want to call it. .500 football. And his only strength is raw raw and that's failing him now too.

This is the problem with having an entrenched point of view then cherry picking to suit your argument. Garrard and Leftwich were serviceable with the odd good season - but no where near good enough to compete with Manning, he also had rookie Gabbert in the year he got fired don't forget which wouldn't help anyone's win%. Interestingly, since JDR left they've achieved 2-14, 4-12, 3-13, 5-11 and 3-13 seasons until this year - that's obviously not all on the fact Del Rio left but gives an indication that he wasn't the only 'issue' there. Jacksonville did have a good running game and a very good defence prior to that no doubt, but ..............and this is the crucial bit...............you're not going to credit JDR with any of the good play, only the bad? You can't have your cake and eat it unfortunately, that's not intellectually honest.

I totally agree with the Musgrave/Norton thing - though it strikes me as wildly inconsistent how patient and loyal he was with Norton while ready to apparently jettison Musgrave after a great season, maybe there were other factors or parties involved, we simply don't know at this stage.

With regard to the Raiders, JDR had a team that believed in itself last year, was never out of the fight and extremely clutch. The deficiency with the team IMHO was the X's and O's primarily on the defensive side but occasionally on the O too. I've stated many times that I don't believe JDR is that type of coach and this is why I'm advocating for technically proficient, experienced coordinators to just let JDR do his rah rah thing. He clearly was able to inject belief into the team last year and give them a never say die attitude, fostered by things like the New Orleans 2 point conversion and numerous 4th down conversions. All great coaching decisions that lots of coaches don't make.

I don't think we're going to get any closer here, you clearly don't like JDR and that's fair, that's your call. You may well prove to be right in the long run but we'll just have to wait and see next season I guess, should be interesting either way 

[oakdb36]

What's the general opinion on MEJ?

[Chali21]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

What's the general opinion on MEJ?

The injuries have totally slowed him, he really isn't the same guy he was in his rookie season. Still if he could come back healthy then I'd resign him, unless they change the scheme and he doesn't fit it.

[Rolni]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

What's the general opinion on MEJ?

I think he is an asset!

I think he is a really good run stopping 3-4DE, 4-3LDE and can offer some push as a nickel DT.

I think the first half against the Cowboys showed how much we missed him against the run.

We need him back at LDE IMO.

Him, Ellis and Vanderdoes (not that good against the run, but offers more as a pass rusher) could be a really solid DL for years.

[OakRaiders3828]

2 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

What's the general opinion on MEJ?

Maybe not elite like we thought he was headed, but a very solid player and good run stuffer 

[Darbsk]

4 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

What's the general opinion on MEJ?

 

I have to be honest and say I'm a little underwhelmed by him this year, maybe that was because he did show flashes of huge potential his rookie season.

Agree with the guys above, he's been an above average to good level run defender who I think can improve his hand usage and leverage (I was expecting more violent hands from him after his rookie year), he's had a few cleanup sacks but he hasn't really generated the interior penetration I was expecting. Now, some of that might be due to previous injuries and maybe he needs a season like this one to get back up to speed and will break out next season - but as of now that's more hope than expectation. 

As Rolni says, If we are starting MEJ - Ellis - Vanderdoes next season that will be solid rather than spectacular. MEJ and Vanderdoes of course have potential to improve but Ellis pretty much is what he is at this stage.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Darbsk

[dante9876]

I'l be pretty unhappy if we start Edwards, vanderdoes and Ellis next season. Ellis isnt awful but he is able to be block by one person to much for your suppose plugger in the middle. 

[oakdb36]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

 

I have to be honest and say I'm a little underwhelmed by him this year, maybe that was because he did show flashes of huge potential his rookie season.

Me too. He looked pretty good the first couple of games this season but hasn't made much of an impact since.

[OakRaiders3828]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

Me too. He looked pretty good the first couple of games this season but hasn't made much of an impact since.

Not that I disagree but he was responsible for that third and goal stuff late in the game yesterday, destroyed the center, it was sweet.

[SilverNBlackFan]

4 hours ago, OakRaiders3828 said:

Not that I disagree but he was responsible for that third and goal stuff late in the game yesterday, destroyed the center, it was sweet.

Didn't he miss the game last night

[SilverNBlackFan]

As far as MEJ goes, I think he's a talented but highly inconsistent player. His rookie year I saw flashes of a future near pro bowl like player. Then the injury robbed him of his sophomore year, and then this year he started hot but has faded pretty quickly.

I hope he can rebound next year, hopefully with a better DC calling the shots.

[Humble_Beast]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

 

I have to be honest and say I'm a little underwhelmed by him this year, maybe that was because he did show flashes of huge potential his rookie season.

Agree with the guys above, he's been an above average to good level run defender who I think can improve his hand usage and leverage (I was expecting more violent hands from him after his rookie year), he's had a few cleanup sacks but he hasn't really generated the interior penetration I was expecting. Now, some of that might be due to previous injuries and maybe he needs a season like this one to get back up to speed and will break out next season - but as of now that's more hope than expectation. 

As Rolni says, If we are starting MEJ - Ellis - Vanderdoes next season that will be solid rather than spectacular. MEJ and Vanderdoes of course have potential to improve but Ellis pretty much is what he is at this stage.

Edwards was looking like a future all pro his rookie year. had a horrific injury and honestly hasn't looked the same... he has made some plays after his injuries, I'll see how he develops over the course of his rookie contract.. 2018 will be a make or break year for him, if he is a long term starter or a depth guy

[OakRaiders3828]

1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Didn't he miss the game last night

Idk why I was thinking about Ellis. Whoops 

[drfrey13]

15 hours ago, Darbsk said:

 

I have to be honest and say I'm a little underwhelmed by him this year, maybe that was because he did show flashes of huge potential his rookie season.

Agree with the guys above, he's been an above average to good level run defender who I think can improve his hand usage and leverage (I was expecting more violent hands from him after his rookie year), he's had a few cleanup sacks but he hasn't really generated the interior penetration I was expecting. Now, some of that might be due to previous injuries and maybe he needs a season like this one to get back up to speed and will break out next season - but as of now that's more hope than expectation. 

As Rolni says, If we are starting MEJ - Ellis - Vanderdoes next season that will be solid rather than spectacular. MEJ and Vanderdoes of course have potential to improve but Ellis pretty much is what he is at this stage.

If we do not resign Ellis and decide against drafting a NT early I would love to pursue Bennie Logan.  Been wanting to see the team pay attention to the NT position for a while now.  Was happy about the Dan Williams signing when it happened but unfortunately his play fell of quickly. this team has neglected this position for a long time and it shows.  I wanted Linval Joseph and Brandon Williams over the past few years and now I am all in on Logan.  A force in the middle is badly needed.