jimkelly02 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, massraider said: Guys like Warford or Logan Ryan are nearly impossible without cutting Gabe. Yeah I stated we could cut Jackson for Warford, who’d likely settle for several million less than the 9.6M Jackson is due to get. 12 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: No thanks. Warford was cut in favor of a rookie. If he was better than Gabe, we could've just drafted someone. Imo, he'd be a slight downgrade, and I'm not interested in having an extra 2.5-3mil for a guy a Superbowl caliber team just replaced with a rookie without even a camp battle. Warford isn’t a downgrade at all IMO. He’s been a Pro Bowler the last 3 years while Jackson has never been. And if your defense to that is the PB is a popularity contest well then look at the metrics and Warford out performs Jackson in every one. Jackson hasn’t played at a high level in 2 years. He gave up 5 sacks on only 399 passing attempts. The average starting G plays roughly 550-600 pass snaps a year... He was on pace for a 7-8 sack full season. Maybe Jackson will play like he did in ‘17 for us next year but he’s been a massive performance and injury disappointment for 2 straight years. 11 sacks in 24 games (8 missed) after 2 in 31 (1 missed) the 2 yea before that. Their the same age, Warford is less than a month younger. Younger, better player at 75% the cost.... is do it! If nothing else Jackson would be asked to reduce his salary or be cut. There’s other options out there. Some better and cheaper (warford) and some nearly as good and way cheaper (Good) Edited May 10, 2020 by jimkelly02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said: Yeah I stated we could cut Jackson for Warford, who’d likely settle for several million less than the 9.6M Jackson is due to get. Warford isn’t a downgrade at all IMO. He’s been a Pro Bowler the last 3 years while Jackson has never been. And if your defense to that is the PB is a popularity contest well then look at the metrics and Warford out performs Jackson in every one. Jackson hasn’t played at a high level in 2 years. He gave up 5 sacks on only 399 passing attempts. The average starting G plays roughly 550-600 pass snaps a year... He was on pace for a 7-8 sack full season. Maybe Jackson will play like he did in ‘17 for us next year but he’s been a massive performance and injury disappointment for 2 straight years. 11 sacks in 24 games (8 missed) after 2 in 31 (1 missed) the 2 yea before that. Their the same age, Warford is less than a month younger. Younger, better player at 75% the cost.... is do it! If nothing else Jackson would be asked to reduce his salary or be cut. There’s other options out there. Some better and cheaper (warford) and some nearly as good and way cheaper (Good) I wonder what he would demand as well. It's worth looking into but he may sign elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I wonder what he would demand as well. It's worth looking into but he may sign elsewhere. Yeah it’s not likely we sign him, I just think it’s something to look into. Better player, more durable, likely cheaper: how do you not consider that? At bare minimum Warfords availability should be used to strong arm Jackson into a pay reduction in exchange for guaranteeing this years salary. After two years of lower than expected performance, ever since he got the extension, and given the financial outlook for the cap due to covid19, Jackson should be forced into a pay cut or release. I don’t know how you go into the reason with him at 9.6M. That’s this late in FA I’d guess on the low end 5.5M and on the high end 8M. If I had to guess I’d say 6-7M. Note: look at What the chiefs did with Duvernay-Tardif. He signed a very comparable deal then his pay slid a bit and he took a pay cut in exchange for guaranteed money. https://overthecap.com/player/laurent-duvernay-tardif/3139/ Edited May 10, 2020 by jimkelly02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 23 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: Yeah it’s not likely we sign him, I just think it’s something to look into. Better player, more durable, likely cheaper: how do you not consider that? At bare minimum Warfords availability should be used to strong arm Jackson into a pay reduction in exchange for guaranteeing this years salary. After two years of lower than expected performance, ever since he got the extension, and given the financial outlook for the cap due to covid19, Jackson should be forced into a pay cut or release. I don’t know how you go into the reason with him at 9.6M. That’s this late in FA I’d guess on the low end 5.5M and on the high end 8M. If I had to guess I’d say 6-7M. Note: look at What the chiefs did with Duvernay-Tardif. He signed a very comparable deal then his pay slid a bit and he took a pay cut in exchange for guaranteed money. https://overthecap.com/player/laurent-duvernay-tardif/3139/ Jackson has zero leverage if the Raiders believe he is a scheme fit and they act quickly. Only downfall is how the move will be perceived in the locker room. If you can save $3+ million I think most in the locker room will understand that it was a business decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Jackson has zero leverage if the Raiders believe he is a scheme fit and they act quickly. Only downfall is how the move will be perceived in the locker room. If you can save $3+ million I think most in the locker room will understand that it was a business decision. The key is opening up negotiations with Warford fast, getting that into the media, and going back to Jackson & his agent and saying saying “well we really do like Gabe but there has been the injuries and relatively small drop in performance, possibly as a result... and given the possibility the salary cap next year may be effected heavily by Covid19 we need to explore every option of reducing cap costs and carrying over as much cap as possible.... Warford is ready to sign for the 7.65M he was due to receive from the Saints... he’s been a Pro Bowler 3 straight years.... Would Gabe he willing to reduce his salary to $7M and we guarantee it all? We’d really love to keep him at that rate, he’s an real asset to the team and locker room!” BTW, it’s not Ike Jackson isn’t use to getting paid roughly $7M, as he got that exact amount last year. https://overthecap.com/player/gabe-jackson/3020/ Comparable contracts for G’s: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/guard/veteran/ I think you could also wait to see what Warford accepts and make an offer off that. We could always roll with Good/Simpson. 9.6M savings isn’t just about this year, they could carry over into 2021. It’d be nice specially impotent yo save 2-4M when the cap next year could be heavily impacted by a possible massive reduction in revenue if games aren’t played with fans or a stadium at lower capacities. i think the locket room thing could have a slight negative effect but players know it’s just business and on the opposite end all the players who were negotiated down a bit in contract talks might inversely not like to see an under performing player have a top salary. Edited May 11, 2020 by jimkelly02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Whoever said Amukamara was a good add, good call! He's on the younger end for a vet. Still a very solid starting corner as I recall watching him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 kinda takes Arnettes value away if he isn’t a day 1 starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 But I always like Prince and think he’s locked in as a starter. He has that dog mentality like our other DBs. Maybe we try him at FS, but probably corner. Nice vet pick up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Im not mad at it at all. We needed a vet CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Round out the defense depth and add a DL, LB, S and we would be good for camp with great competitor across the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, agarcia34 said: I feel like we never gave him a fair shot... we should have used him exclusively at slot CB imo and not given up on him when he struggled early. He was a “steal” as a 4th round pick only 3 drafts/ 2 seasons ago. He wasn’t likely to make the team but he sure would have pushed Nixon and is a better player than dj killings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: I feel like we never gave him a fair shot... we should have used him exclusively at slot CB imo and not given up on him when he struggled early. He was a “steal” as a 4th round pick only 3 drafts/ 2 seasons ago. He wasn’t likely to make the team but he sure would have pushed Nixon and is a better player than dj killings This might be one of those situations that you know he was not going to make your team but could catch on somewhere else. He was not our worst DB but was a long shot to make the team. I thought he had a shot coming out but he did not have the physical skills to make up for mistakes. I wish him the best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 He shower nothing when he played and I guess his mindset, motor etc was not Grudock style enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I feel we need to add some competition at DT, especially as we seem to be trying to light a fire under Hall. We've brought in Collins but little else that may have a chance to push the incumbents. Is Timmy Jernigan still a FA or Stacy McGee, even Ethan Westbrooks or Hasaan Ridgeway may make for some genuine competition and be able to push the presumed locks......... We seem very inactive this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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