Around the NFL III - The NFLiest Yet

[John232]

6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

The jury is still out on Aiyuk being a deep ball threat. Not saying he isn't but that's not how he's being used. 

We need legit speed on the outside to open up defenses and stop them from clogging up the grass between the hashes. A threat that defenses have to honor when ever they're lined up outside. I'm not sure if that describes Aiyuk as of yet.

Ross essentially replaces Goodwin/Benjamin for us in that role...that's how I see it.

Eh, too each their own. Seeing the ball in his hands, he has plenty of elite speed. I think there may be issues around releases, but I think more to the point that you made. He's just not being used right now like that and I think that's 100% because of Jimmy, offensive line issues and just general scheme preference. IF the line and Jimmy start settling in, I think we'll see Aiyuk going vertical a lot more often.

 

But I agree completely, we really need someone who can go deep and go deep hard. 

[757-NINER]

21 minutes ago, Forge said:

He'd be amazingly wasted in this offense lol

Not really.

If Ross is on the field with Kittle, Aiyuk & Deebo, you absolutely have to honor that kind of speed.

We don't necessarily have to throw a bunch of deep balls to him. He just has to run routes like we he is being targeted. And eventually you'll catch the defense laxing or biting up towards the middle to take away a Kittle or a Deebo working that area and he'll be wide open for a easy score. 

 

[GW21]

24 minutes ago, Forge said:

That's the move lol 

Pettis for Ross. 

Well I mean, that's what I proposed in the first place. Not like I'm talking about assets that'd actually see the field anyway. 
 

3 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Former first-round pick John Ross requests trade from Cincinnati Bengals, wants fresh start
https://www.nfl.com/news/former-first-round-pick-john-ross-wants-fresh-start-requests-trade-from-bengals

What do you guys think? Pettis for Ross? It's pretty clear Pettis isn't getting out of the dog house at this point and Shanny could probably utilize Ross on some of those end arounds. 

I think it's a no lose situation & I'm with @757-NINER in that you have to respect that speed. We had Alex Smith and Teddy Ginn on the field and you could definitely tell that the defenses we faced kept an eye on Ginn. 

[Forge]

32 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Not really.

If Ross is on the field with Kittle, Aiyuk & Deebo, you absolutely have to honor that kind of speed.

 

You don't because we don't ever throw it. Single coverage outside and you're fine.

You're also not going to put him on the field for a substantial number of snaps.

[Forge]

42 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Well I mean, that's what I proposed in the first place. Not like I'm talking about assets that'd actually see the field anyway. 

Yeah, I mean that's pretty much whatever. There's no harm in taking a shot on him, and that's about the extent I'd be willing to part with, don't think it changes much offensively though. 

[N4L]

41 minutes ago, Forge said:

You don't because we don't ever throw it. Single coverage outside and you're fine.

You're also not going to put him on the field for a substantial number of snaps.

Well, we havent gotten the protection necessary to allow for deeper routes to develop. I am hoping the progress the OL showed on sunday can carry forward and we can start to push the ball down the field more. 

[StevenK]

Not that I wouldn’t mind Ross on the team, I just doubt that Lynch and co are thinking we need more receivers. I would imagine they are asking for depth at Oline and dline, possibly corner too. 

[John232]

https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1318553382886510593?s=20

Where does he sit on all-time busts?

1. Druckenmiller
2. Thomas
3. McGrew
4. Balmer
5. AJ Jenkins
6. Rashaun Woods
7. Foster
8. Garnett (at least he played?)

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by John232

[Forge]

1 minute ago, N4L said:

Well, we havent gotten the protection necessary to allow for deeper routes to develop. I am hoping the progress the OL showed on sunday can carry forward and we can start to push the ball down the field more. 

I'd be surprised if that's something happens based on all prior history of Jimmy G in this system. It's not just a line issue (though it certainly plays a part). 

 

[P_locniners]

11 minutes ago, John232 said:

https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1318553382886510593?s=20

Where does he sit on all-time busts?

1. Druckenmiller
2. Thomas
3. McGrew
4. Balmer
5. AJ Jenkins
6. Rashaun Woods
7. Foster
8. Garnett (at least he played?)

 

Garnett was pretty huge bust considering where he was taken and that he was one of the "safer" o-line picks in the draft, I was very surprised at how little he accomplished. Im not throwing Foster or Thomas on that list because they still have a lot of time to accomplish something. AJ Jenkins and Balmer were epic late first round busts......I wont even go into Drunckenmiller

Edited October 20, 2020 by P_locniners

[John232]

10 minutes ago, P_locniners said:

Garnett was pretty huge bust considering where he was taken and that he was one of the "safer" o-line picks in the draft, I was very surprised at how little he accomplished. Im not throwing Foster or Thomas on that list because they still have a lot of time to accomplish something. AJ Jenkins and Balmer were epic late first round busts......I wont even go into Drunckenmiller

Fair points on Thomas. I put Thomas up there because the opportunity cost is..astounding.  Obviously, if you think you're getting someone who could be Michael Bennett for the next ten years, it's great value regardless of QB's taken..but he's awful and I doubt he'll be anything more than a rotational journeyman. Foster is done. He can't stay healthy, he's a headcase and he has not lived up to the trade up. 

Jenkins, Balmer and Woods are up there as well because they just flat out did not do a single damn thing.  edit: I also don't recall a lot of "safe pick" narrative with Garnett. It was mostly massive reach comments and how did we not pick Myles Jack. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by John232

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

You don't because we don't ever throw it. Single coverage outside and you're fine.

You're also not going to put him on the field for a substantial number of snaps.

We've thrown deep plenty in previous seasons when we've had that kind of speed on the outsideand when Goodwin was healthy and a viable option. We were never that good at it....but still, we took shots.

So the question is are we not throwing deep as much this year becasue we a) lack a true deep threat, b) don't trust the O-Line to hold up or c) dont trust the QBs to be competent in that area? 

Hard for me to answer that at this juncture, but being able to have that kind of speed at your disposal has to be somewhat important if Shanny went after Goodwin in his first year as a HC and made it a point to go out and sign a guy like Benjamin this off-season, once Goodwin was jettisoned. Those kind of players obviously hold some sort of value in this scheme one would think.

[Forge]

21 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

We've thrown deep plenty in previous seasons when we've had that kind of speed on the outsideand when Goodwin was healthy and a viable option. We were never that good at it....but still, we took shots.

 

But we haven't. Not with Jimmy, at least,  which is the important piece here. CJ, we absolutely have gone downfield.  Jimmy had one of the lowest attempts of passes last year that were over 20 yards downfield. Only Brees threw it less (Flacco and Keenum as well, but neither of those guys started the entire season). Same for 30 yards down field. That hasn't changed this year. 

The year before it's a little harder because we were split between 3 quarterbacks, but Mullens played half the season and only had 2 passes over 30 yards. Even if you extrapolated for the full season, it's still last in the league. 

So either Shanny is avoiding shots downfield when it's a QB other than CJ in there, or Jimmy and Mullens simply aren't taking those type of shots down field. Either way, it's not happening when Jimmy is under center for the last couple of years. Humorously, I mentioned this on the podcast a couple of weeks ago because I am of the opinion that if CJ is the starter, that we are taking more shots downfield...but we don't do it much with Jimmy for whatever reason, and I don't think that changes based on the receivers we have. 

[Forge]

 

[P_locniners]

15 minutes ago, Forge said:

 

Hard pass....Fuller is too often injured and the rest just dont have it anymore IMO