Jump to content
KhanYouDigIt

Astros cheat-Lunhow/Hinch fired-Manfred clueless

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Spartica4Real said:

Uh... are we talking about the same chart? The one of the guy who logged every single pitch and use of the trash can. You're telling me that Altuve only got 2.7% offspeed pitches throughout the entire season? Other guys were close to 40%. Altuve and Reddick were both in the 2's. 

Postseason argument doesn't hold either since there was no trash can banging in the playoffs. The splits would only matter if it's found there was another way they were cheating in the playoffs. Which there has still been no solid evidence of. 

Lol, using the lawyer argument is rich. We know they had another way, and there’s plenty of evidence to support it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Lol, using the lawyer argument is rich. We know they had another way, and there’s plenty of evidence to support it. 

My only dog in this fight is that I like the two players involved.

What is the other way of cheating that we have evidence for? MLB itself said there weren't "remote electronic devices" (IE buzzers) in play. We know there were cameras in the outfield linked to a TV under the dugout. Employees used this system to steal signs and banged trash cans to signal certain pitches. As far as I've been informed, that's all we know. That chart shows that a bunch of guys directly cheated using this method, and it shows that Altuve and Reddick weren't among them. They may have cheated in another way, but I'm fairly certain there is zero evidence of that.

As a bunch of people have pointed out, however, they remained silent and are thus complicit, so there is that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Lol, using the lawyer argument is rich. We know they had another way, and there’s plenty of evidence to support it. 

There is absolutely no good evidence of buzzers or any of the other claims. None. Second hand stories of people saying the BP catcher would put his hands high on the fence or low on the fence depending on the pitch and fake nieces/Jomboy saying there were buzzers are not substantial evidence. 

This is just a case of when you cheat you open yourself up to other accusations. Can't really defend yourself and say you don't have the integrity to do that when you just cheated another way, and even if you do defend yourself your word means nothing. 

Edited by Spartica4Real

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are asinine if you think the only way they communicated it was trash cans. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence. This reminds me when Bauer said the Astros were DOING THIS and got crucified by Astros reporters and fans (they’ve all been tweeted/facebooked off social media).  
 

They’ve been doing this three seasons. They could of communicated with signs from dugout we don’t see and also the suspect thing Altuve was wearing under his shirt. Hope no one calls his shy excuse believable. 
 

Go ahead and crucify myself and @Mesa_Titan for saying otherwise. The truth will surface just like Bauer said it would over a year ago. 
 

This is the issue here. Media/fans crucify anything, no matter how much a point that person has or how much circumstantial evidence that person has. They will defend their team to death until very hard evidence. Reminds me of Pat fans over spygate... no big deal, every team does it!!! It was a VERY big deal and gave a HUGE competitive advantage.

Full details of spygate surfaced 7 years late and it was sickening. 

Edited by BayRaider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a Tigers fan. The guy that came out with the report tracking every instance of trash can cheating is an Astros fan. Houston fans aren't defending anything. They're really, really upset.

The stuff people are accusing guys of now is just ludicrous. It's not about defending people, it's about logic. It's not that guys wouldn't wear a wire in order to cheat, it's that wearing a wire is a ludicrous idea that makes zero sense.

22 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

This is the issue here. Media/fans crucify anything, no matter how much a point that person has or how much circumstantial evidence that person has.

I mean, this is literally what you're doing right now. Nobody is saying this scandal is over, they're just saying things that should be obvious based on evidence and common sense. There is no reason to have a wire coming out of a vibrating device. The device would already vibrate. What would the wire accomplish? There is no reason to have that device on your chest where it could become visible. You could have it anywhere.

By the way, "asinine" means extremely foolish or stupid. Pretty goddam rude my man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, nagahide13 said:

There is no reason to have a wire coming out of a vibrating device. The device would already vibrate. What would the wire accomplish?

The thing would have to be WiFi right? Couldnt a short wire serve as an antennae to pick up the signal? Dont know any of that obviously, but other WiFi applications have antennas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2020 at 6:21 PM, DirtyDez said:

How do pitchers and catchers not have ear pieces yet?

How do you expect catchers to call pitches with the batter right there? Gotta whisper and then the crowd is loud and then what?

Lol I agree they should do something like this but I haven't been able to figure out what that looks like where the catcher is able to call pitches still. Maybe they have different tones for different pitches and it's some kind of button or something? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AJ Hinch didn’t directly deny that buzzers were used during this interview he did with MLB Network. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wall Street Journal:  On Sept. 22, 2016, an intern in the Houston Astros organization showed general manager Jeff Luhnow a PowerPoint presentation that featured the latest creation by the team’s high-tech front office: an Excel-based application programmed with an algorithm that could decode the opposing catchers’ signs. It was called “Codebreaker.”

This was the beginning of what has turned into one of the biggest scandals in Major League Baseball history. Throughout the 2017 season and for part of 2018, Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers used Codebreaker to illegally steal signs, which were then relayed to batters in real time. Another Astros employee referred to the system as the “dark arts.”

The existence of Codebreaker shows that it was the Astros front office that laid the groundwork for the team’s electronic sign-stealing schemes.

During MLB’s probe, Luhnow maintained that he had no knowledge of any of the Astros’ misconduct. However, Manfred wrote in his letter that “there is more than sufficient evidence to support a conclusion that you knew—and overwhelming evidence that you should have known—that the Astros maintained a sign-stealing program that violated MLB’s rules.”

But while the league collected evidence that showed Luhnow was aware of Codebreaker’s existence and capabilities, it couldn’t prove that he knew how it was used. In response to Manfred’s letter, Luhnow presented investigators with a binder with more than 170 pages that cast at least some doubt on the contents of the initial letter, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

These people described the situation as a “he said-he said” between Luhnow and Tom Koch-Weser, the team’s director of advance information, who sent two emails to Luhnow in 2017 that referenced “the system” and “our dark arts, sign-stealing department.”

Luhnow opened the emails, but told investigators he did not read to the bottom of them.

MLB couldn’t decipher whose account was truthful. In his final findings, Manfred said that the investigation revealed that “Luhnow neither devised nor actively directed the efforts of the replay review room staff to decode signs in 2017 or 2018.”

The way Codebreaker worked was simple: Somebody would watch an in-game live feed and log the catcher’s signs into the spreadsheet, as well as the type of pitch that was actually thrown. With that information, Codebreaker determined how the signs corresponded with different pitches. Once decoded, that information would be communicated through intermediaries to a baserunner, who would relay them to the hitter.

Starting around June 2017, the system was embellished by Astros players. They started watching a live game feed on a monitor near the dugout and then would bang on a trash can to communicate the coming pitch to the batter. The "banging scheme" lasted through the 2017 World Series, which the Astros won over the Los Angeles Dodgers. Manfred said Luhnow was unaware of the banging scheme.

But everything started with Codebreaker, and the use of it to steal signs continued into 2018—not just at home, but also on the road.

Luhnow acknowledged to investigators that he recalled the intern’s PowerPoint slide about Codebreaker and even asked questions about how it worked. He said that he was under the impression that it would be used to legally decipher signs from previous game footage—not live in games.

Vigoa’s presentation wasn’t the only time Astros employees say Luhnow was informed about Codebreaker. Koch-Weser, the Astros’ director of advance information, said he discussed Codebreaker with Luhnow in one to three meetings after the 2016 season.

Koch-Weser told MLB that Luhnow would “giggle” at the title and appeared “excited” about it. Koch-Weser also said that Luhnow sometimes entered the Astros’ video room during road games and made comments such as, “You guys Codebreaking?”

Luhnow denied Koch-Weser’s accounts.

Edited by Leader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So my question is.... why hasn't Derek Vigoa been fired yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Manfred is sackless. Players should've faced major suspensions and everyone involved in the FO should've been fired/banned forever. This was elaborate and blatant. Plausible deniability is not something that holds any water here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×