VikeManDan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Nozizaki said: I'm actually fairly certain the Vikings will fire Mike Zimmer either today or after the Packers game, if they fail to win, If they're going to do it in season, now is the time with the BYE week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) Curious on people’s thoughts with the above. Edited October 19, 2020 by VikeManDan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Iowa Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Zimmer needs to go. When you get totally dismantled by an 0-5 team who's on the road with a new head coach and seemingly nothing to play for, that's a problem. Tank now, go draft Trevor Lawrence, get a new HC who can direct of both sides of the ball (not just defense (which was swiss cheese yesterday)) and start over. There is no reason, other than bad coaching, that this team shouldn't be at least 3-3, and no reason after this many years of building that it's hot garbage at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Prior to our retool on defense this year, we would have been 18-13-1 with Cousins. Win percentage with the other QB's was 60%; win percentage with Cousins (prior to this year's retool) is 56% Cousins is certainly one of the problems, but so is an aging, expensive, and underperforming defense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 33 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: Curious on people’s thoughts with the above. Elite defenses made up for Cassel, Teddy, Hill, Bradford, etc. No question about that. Even then, The Vikes only made the playoffs twice in those 4 seasons. The defense has been on a decline since Kirk walked in the door. Whether that's due to lack of funds for signing Kirk or not....I don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickendricks4pf Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I would be fine with keeping Zimmer I think, having thought about it more. Given the state of the franchise (no cap space and little flexibility, and a team seeming to be on the downturn) I don't think it would be a very appealing job for top HC candidates. It would be unlikely that we'd end up with a better coach than Zimmer. I know everyone wants a top offensive mind, but how many of those are going to sign up to work with Kirk Cousins? I think Spielman is a better candidate to be fired but it seems that he and Zimmer are married in ownerships eyes. I think it is Spielman's evaluation of Cousins that ended up being the worst decision of this regime. Extending him made little sense at the time and looks to be worse by the day. Zimmer has his faults for sure. However, re: conservative-ness, he has become more aggressive recently. last year specifically, he was 5th in Football Outsiders Aggressiveness Index. 5th in 4th down attempts this year (which may be confounded by sucking and needing to go for it more). I think his biggest weakness is how obsessed he is with the run game, but that also seems to be a necessity because of his quarterback. Cousins has historically played his best in heavy play action systems, and regularly wilts when that threat is taken away by game script. Looking around the NFL, most teams that have a QB around the Cousins tier run similar offenses. Cousins needs to be coddled by the offense and play calling, and even then he is able to put up games like yesterday. Yesterday was bad on all ends, but there isn't much anyone can do with defensive scheme when your 35 million dollar QB is handing the ball to the other team during all competitive portions of the game. Having a defensive head coach doesn't automatically mean you will have a good defense, you still need good players. and the Vikings have like 4 solidly good players on defense right now. There isn't much to work with on that end, so while yes the defense has been awful and Zimmer deserves blame for that, I don't think he deserves all of it. Giving up field position when leading the NFL in interceptions while being plagued with injury and starting rookies everywhere isn't a good recipe. Lastly, I think it is fair to say Zimmer is a good coach. Maybe not great but he is solidly good. It is no guarantee that whoever is brought in to be his replacement will be at his level. For every Shanahan and Mcvay there is also an Adam Gase and Zac Taylor. Something to keep in mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, VikeManDan said: Curious on people’s thoughts with the above. It completely ignores the defense’s impact over those time spans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: Whether that's due to lack of funds for signing Kirk or not....I don't know. It’s because this team has not been able to develop any of their defensive draft picks since 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 After this year, they'll have missed the playoffs more than made them while Zimmer is here...... over time, the team has gotten worse under Zimmer, not better. I've said all along that one reason he's viewed as a defensive genius is that the defensive backfield was veterans and first round picks (or 2nd) for the most part. Now that they are young.....and the GM has spent more draft capital and FA capital on offense, the defense isn't good (at all). A genius should do better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said: After this year, they'll have missed the playoffs more than made them while Zimmer is here...... over time, the team has gotten worse under Zimmer, not better. I've said all along that one reason he's viewed as a defensive genius is that the defensive backfield was veterans and first round picks (or 2nd) for the most part. Now that they are young.....and the GM has spent more draft capital and FA capital on offense, the defense isn't good (at all). A genius should do better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said: Zimmer needs to go. When you get totally dismantled by an 0-5 team who's on the road with a new head coach and seemingly nothing to play for, that's a problem. Tank now, go draft Trevor Lawrence, get a new HC who can direct of both sides of the ball (not just defense (which was swiss cheese yesterday)) and start over. There is no reason, other than bad coaching, that this team shouldn't be at least 3-3, and no reason after this many years of building that it's hot garbage at this point. You can cement the Jets in for the first pick. Not pencil. Cement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 59 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: Elite defenses made up for Cassel, Teddy, Hill, Bradford, etc. No question about that. Even then, The Vikes only made the playoffs twice in those 4 seasons. The defense has been on a decline since Kirk walked in the door. Whether that's due to lack of funds for signing Kirk or not....I don't know. Theres the perspective that he was supposed to be the solution, and if we’re not any better with him, then he wasn’t the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_K Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: You can cement the Jets in for the first pick. Not pencil. Cement. And they, (even with a relatively incompetent GM) are not likely to trade that 1st choice away. At BEST, The Vikings are looking at having to trade up for Fields or Lance. Maybe those 2 are rated 2nd and 3rd QB in THIS year's draft; but they are a long way behind #1 in overall skills and potential. Are they really decent shots to become "franchise QBs"? Edited October 19, 2020 by Robb_K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I don't think you can pin down just one reason, like saying Kirk is the #1 problem, for their lack of success. I also can't agree with PCP's notion that the team has gotten worse over time. I just think it's been up and down...and this season has been more similar to the 2014 season, with all the young pieces...and was a team that started out 2-5 and ended up 7-9. The team isn't worse...it just feels worse right now because we expected more. In 2014, we were coming off a 5-10-1 season, so we didn't expect much. Last year we were a divisional playoff team, so we expected more. That's the only significant difference, as far as I'm concerned. I will admit I expected more from the offense than has been delivered, because they needed to deliver more because of the youth on defense. And that's where Kirk is more accountable. He may be a primary problem, because his decision-making has been suspect at best, but he's not the only problem. It's a confluence of problems, including injuries to 2 of their primary players on defense that were going to be counted on to lead the young defense. I also don't think coaching is the primary problem...but, it is a problem that resulted in where they are. They probably tried to change too much in offseason, because not only did they change over a lot of players, they also changed a lot of their coaching staff, giving new responsibilities to Adam and Andre, and losing Jerry and George. I can agree with Steve though, cement in the Jets for the #1 pick right now. There isn't a worse team in the NFL right now. Not only do they have bad coaching, they have little to no talent to even work with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 This was a playoff team a year ago, with expectations of making the playoffs again. They are clearly not a playoff team this year. How aren’t they worse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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