Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Ty21]

2 hours ago, mission27 said:

And you guys are already getting hit harder than most.  All around ****ty situation.

Probably still not harder than Michigan will be. It took a global pandemic for me to learn how stupid the people in my state truly are

[mission27]

4 minutes ago, Tyty said:

Probably still not harder than Michigan will be. It took a global pandemic for me to learn how stupid the people in my state truly are

Y'all already got hit tbh

[naptownskinsfan]

11 hours ago, vikesfan89 said:

Minnesota is a mess right now with all of the protesters looting and burning buildings down. Obligatory watch for the cases to spike in 2 weeks

So yall finally jumped the shark as it pertains to looting and property destruction.  Now this is going to happen at any future protests about this.  

I'm all for opening up but this is ridiculous.  

[vikesfan89]

2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

So yall finally jumped the shark as it pertains to looting and property destruction.  Now this is going to happen at any future protests about this.  

I'm all for opening up but this is ridiculous.  

This had nothing to do with opening up.  A cop killed a black guy and the city went nuts apparently 

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, vikesfan89 said:

This had nothing to do with opening up.  A cop killed a black guy and the city went nuts apparently 

Ok, that was in Minnesota.  I'm not living under that big of a rock, just didn't know where that happened.  

And with that, back to your normally scheduled Covid-19 posts.  

[mission27]

Yeah... if those protests were about the lockdown good lord.  

[rob_shadows]

Speaking of Minneapolis I know we can't really discuss it all here but I do want to say be safe and be careful to our members in the city.

[naptownskinsfan]

23 minutes ago, rob_shadows said:

Speaking of Minneapolis I know we can't really discuss it all here but I do want to say be safe and be careful to our members in the city.

Agreed, hope you guys there are in a safe place and no harm comes to you or your family.  Having been in Baltimore during both nights of the riots in 2015 it is not a fun time to be there right now.  

[WizeGuy]

 

Our Nursing Director is hopeful we'll be entering phase 2 soon. Really proud of the legislature, doctors, nurses, and all of the medical staff who have been on the front lines here in Rochester. They've done a great job so far. Also, I notice a ton of people wearing masks indoors, so kudos to the community, too, even if they are wearing them wrong some times at least they're showing the awareness to wear them. Unfortunately people are being neglectful outside. Really hoping heat and humidity impacts the spread of this nasty little bastard.

[theJ]

1 hour ago, WizeGuy said:

Unfortunately people are being neglectful outside. Really hoping heat and humidity impacts the spread of this nasty little bastard.

Was this from an article somewhere?

There's much less point to wearing masks outdoors, unless it's really crowded.  The wind and natural air currents give you hundreds time the air changes you get indoors from a HVAC unit.  If you cough 6' from someone outside it's not going to reach them.  Inside, definitely.  Normal breathing has basically no shot of getting there.

[WizeGuy]

9 minutes ago, theJ said:

Was this from an article somewhere?

There's much less point to wearing masks outdoors, unless it's really crowded.  The wind and natural air currents give you hundreds time the air changes you get indoors from a HVAC unit.  If you cough 6' from someone outside it's not going to reach them.  Inside, definitely.  Normal breathing has basically no shot of getting there.

Nope, just my personal experience. I quote that from a post I made on another forum. 

I'm assuming that being outside will impact the spread, but I don't think there's been any concrete evidence to support this theory yet. I believe if people are socially distancing, then it's fine, but if there's a group of people standing in an area for a few minutes, then it may have the ability to spread effectively. Of course- heat and humidity may have a stronger enough impact to make the spread minimal. 

[Blahstoise]

 

Coronavirus: Monkeys 'escape with COVID-19 samples' after attacking lab assistant

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752

 

Planet of the Apes time

[seriously27]

13 hours ago, mission27 said:

I do find it kind of interesting that when taking about death rates, folks tend to compare Sweden to Finland and Norway, countries that had almost no outbreaks.  Whereas when talking about antibody levels, they're compared to places like New York, London, and Madrid that had much more serious outbreaks and way more deaths per capita than Stockholm. 

Sweden's strategy all along was to try to avoid lockdown and allow the disease to make its way through the population while avoiding becoming New York.  And I think they've succeeded at that.  You can question the strategy and yes they've made some questionable claims about how quickly they'd get to herd immunity but its not like they ever said they would have the same death rate as a country that didn't have an outbreak or on the flip side that they'd have antibody levels comparable to NYC.  If you accept CFR is more or less constant outside of a healthcare failure scenario, your antibodies and death rate should be related, and all Sweden is trying to do is get to the 70% level or whatever over time to prevent that failure.

The point of comparing them to Finland and Denmark is to show that those countries followed lockdown procedures and measures of social distancing while Sweden did not. They are direct comparisons for Sweden in every way and it shows clearly that by not locking down and going the herd immunity route, they put their own people at risk and in the end they clearly caused more people to die than was necessary. The comparison is because Anders himself said they would be at 20 to 30% by this time. It's not a comparison to New York, its quoted directly from what he stated was going to happen. It's hasn't happened and the loss of life in a country that should be at the same place as those other countries is reprehensible. I understand the idea behind what they are trying to do with herd immunity but if you look at those numbers and the numbers from their direct neighbors and you don't see a problem with the huge loss of life they are dealing with.....I don't know man. That's a problem. 

[mission27]

6 minutes ago, seriously27 said:

The point of comparing them to Finland and Denmark is to show that those countries followed lockdown procedures and measures of social distancing while Sweden did not. They are direct comparisons for Sweden in every way and it shows clearly that by not locking down and going the herd immunity route, they put their own people at risk and in the end they clearly caused more people to die than was necessary. The comparison is because Anders himself said they would be at 20 to 30% by this time. It's not a comparison to New York, its quoted directly from what he stated was going to happen. It's hasn't happened and the loss of life in a country that should be at the same place as those other countries is reprehensible. I understand the idea behind what they are trying to do with herd immunity but if you look at those numbers and the numbers from their direct neighbors and you don't see a problem with the huge loss of life they are dealing with.....I don't know man. That's a problem. 

I understand, but my point is deaths are going to be a direct proportion to % of population that gets infected for the most part (yes an oversimplification but generally true).  If they had reached 20-30% immunity they would have more deaths.  And on the flip side if their deaths were in line with Finland or Denmark, they'd have a very low % of the population with antibodies.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  We're arguing about where Sweden is on what is basically a linear curve and saying simultaneously that X is too high and Y is too low.  That's not really a valid criticism.  I don't know much about Swedish politics, wouldn't surprise me if their leaders promised them something that wasn't possible, as our leaders have repeatedly. 

As far as not seeing a problem... of course I see a problem with people dying and this is a horrible situation... my personal view is that the lockdowns were misguided and the long term social and economic consequences will be far greater than even the worst case scenario from this virus.  I understand and respect that's a minority position although I personally believe that, in 10 years, most will view what we've done here as a mistake.  As a guy with a degree in economics who wrote his thesis on the long term economic and social impact of the Great Depression and the hundreds of millions of people who lost their lives or lived for decades under repressive regimes as a result, I think we're making a mistake.  Just as I'm sure your background focuses you on the public health consequences of this pandemic.  Again, its not that I don't care about the loss of life, but I'm genuinely concerned about the other side of the coin being many times worse and I think there was a middle ground that would have better balanced various interests.  

With that being said, given the rest of the world is not pursuing herd immunity or even a middle ground approach, I think Sweden made a big mistake.  Because they will not escape the COVID Depression and will now be shunned by the global community for months or more, until they do reach herd immunity (which is a long way off) or a vaccine is readily available.  Its very hard to go against the entire rest of the world and not good for your economy anyway. 

Also to be clear because some people on this site seem to think TLO and I have a platform: just because I would not have started the lockdowns in the first place doesn't mean I am in favor of not following the rules.  And the "new normal" that we are getting back to in the very near term is pretty close to the middle ground I'm talking about anyway.  We are fully supportive of everyone wearing masks, distancing when possible, and avoiding large crowds.  That is common sense stuff.

[TVScout]

Into the database!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/coronavirus/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html

Moscow Revises Coronavirus Tally, Doubling Death Toll: Live Coverage

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/world/coronavirus-update.html

Not free:

Children with perplexing syndrome linked to covid-19 may be experiencing deadly ‘cytokine storm’

New York physicians propose early theory, detailing four case studies that were remarkably similar.

Quote

The four children showed up at the Mount Sinai Kravis Children’s Hospital in late April and early May, almost exactly one month after the peak of New York City’s coronavirus surge. All had fevers, rashes and strange blood readings that did not look like any illness doctors had seen before. And yet, the cases looked remarkably similar to one another.

A study about the children, ages 13, 12, 10, and 5, published in the American Journal of Emergency Medicine, provides the first detailed look at the rapid progression of a mysterious syndrome linked to covid-19 that has alarmed public health officials.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention earlier this month issued an alert warning doctors to be on the lookout for what they are calling multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, or MIS-C, which is now believed to have impacted approximately 300 U.S. children. It appears to have some characteristics in common with Kawasaki disease, a rare illness that typically impacts children under the age of 5 and whose cause is unknown. All four children were treated with a drug called tocilizumab to inhibit the inflammatory reaction. The paper’s authors wrote that the “mechanism of injury during cytokine storm is poorly understood, but an exaggerated initial response that persists over time is associated with poor outcomes.” 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/28/children-with-perplexing-syndrome-linked-covid-19-may-be-experiencing-deadly-cytokine-storm/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab