Bears to decline Trub's 5th year option

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Remember that an 8-8 record may now be good enough to make the playoffs. It's a lower bar now.

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

Who was the last QB to play under the tag?

Kirk Cousins twice

Drew Brees

Dak is on pace to.

 

Better question is how many QBs have been on Trubisky's arch if he plays well this season?

Edited May 14, 2020 by WindyCity

[Madmike90]

21 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Kirk Cousins twice

Drew Brees

Dak is on pace to.

 

Better question is how many QBs have been on Trubisky's arch if he plays well this season?

And did they two players stay with those franchises or did they move to the Vikes & Saints reapectively when they got the chance?...I also highly doubt that Dak's deal doesn't get done before the start of the season...

As to your question...not man...and certainly not many who were then paid $25 million for 2 bad seasons and 2 decent seasons.

[Sugashane]

I think we will see Foles lead us to a WC berth. Not that he will he the catalyst for it but because he will make less mistakes and the defense makes the game MUCH easier for him. 

 

I don't see why that is worth $25 mil though. If you're only hoping for 3300 yards and 20/10 TD to INT because you're running a conservative offense then why not keep investing in vets AROUND the QB and on defense and then have a rookie (for upside as a potential franchise QB and mediocre journeyman on a deal (you know, like Foles right now)?  

 

At some point a QB's contract is going to cause us to lose really good players. If I'm picking between Foles or Quinn, Fuller, EJax, Smith, ARob or someone else who take a jump then atm im happy to drop Foles and look elsewhere. QBs are king to repeated postseason runs but only if you're getting real production from them, not if they are paid to just be consistently not-bad. 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:10 AM, WindyCity said:

Results business.

He gets paid a lot of money and has a lot of resources to get the pick right. 

 

Picking a QB was 100% the right decision. Picking the wrong QB is what should get him fired, as I said in 2017.

No. It's a cop out to use hindsight but it fits for people like yourself who are looking for something else that fits your agenda. Bottom line.  And especially you, as a fan, who agreed with the decision AND the player at the time. You may have been on the Watson train but you weren't exactly asking to get off the Trubisky train at the next exit either like you're trying to ignore/portray. 

You are acting as if Pace taking Mitch was another Shea McClellin move and he drafted a nobody with a premium pick.

You praised pace for taking a chance and going all out to get his guy after the draft but now you are using those very same things against him. It's a cop out and it's weak as hell. You are only using hindsight to criticize Pace because a player did not work out in the end. Period. Mitch was widely considered neck and neck with Watson as the clear #1 QB in the draft and just because Pace and those people turned out to be wrong it doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. 

Look at the other end of the spectrum. Show me ONE person on this earth that expected Mahomes to be as good as he has been when he was widely a 2nd round draft pick ....I'll wait. See? Everyone was wrong about that too. Now show me another GM who drafted a player that didn't live up to his draft pick.....I'll still wait.  

You think Pace should be fired because it was the wrong choice, only IN HINDISIGHT, and that's a cop out. That's like you saying now "well, if Burrows works out for the Bengals then the FO is a genius but if he doesn't work out then the entire FO needs to be fired in 3 years" even though Burrows was widely considered the best QB in the draft-- which makes him the right QB to choose at the time, regardless of how it plays out in the future. 

We have desperately needed a QB for years and were finally in a good position to get one (who was the census best QB in the draft) and Pace took a chance to be sure that he got "his guy" in order to finally give us some stability at the position. Not only did he be sure to get his guy (because other teams were looking at Mitch too) but he literally put his job on the line and did everything in his power to build around him and give US (the fan base) hope again that we have not seen or had in nearly a decade. 

And you want him fired because of it?! GTFOH. Have you forgotten how many years we have spent being a laughing stock? Or when even those 6-8 win seasons were a joke and felt closer to a 3 win season?
 

[JAF-N72EX]

When will people realize that the draft is a total lottery---ESPECIALLY when it come to QB's. And just like the lottery, sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. But that doesn't mean the GM's are idiots either. Ozzie Newsome was one of the best GM's and had one of the best eyes for talent at the time and he still had his fair share of misses at the QB position too (traded up to draft Kyle Boller). Conversely, Belichick nearly passed on Brady for Tim Ratay. 

Alot of players in the draft will usually fall under one or more of these 5 categories . 

1) There are certain players that blow up because they happen to still be available and go to the right team with the best philosophy/teachings that better suits their strengths and help them reach their peak even sooner than expected. See Mahomes, for example, being blessed by getting drafted by a QB guru in Reid and being fortunate enough to be able to sit the bench for a year and learn behind a veteran that is playing in the very same offense that he will eventually be starting for without having to worry about having to learn an entirely new playbook,.

2) Then there are some players who become "busts" because they were simply drafted by the wrong team that play against all of those strengths for whatever reason. See the Packers drafts on defense over the years for example. A team who has struggled for years to fill a void in the secondary. They have drafted some good players like Casey heyward and Michel Hyde but they were only good AFTER they left the Packers and went on to other teams. The Rams(Fisher/Goff) is another example. Goff looked terrible in his rookie eyar under Jeff Fisher. Now what would have happened if Fisher wasn't canned after that and Goff played as bad in his second year? Goff would have more than likely been benched, replaced, and considered a bust.

3) Then there are some players who get drafted by completely inept teams that are internally broken from the ground up and are ultimately set up to fail from the jump. See Cleveland for example. Be honest, when a player goes to Cleveland, how much faith do really have in that player actually working out? Regardless of how good he may look on film and paper.....hell he could be a "sure fire pick"....but when you see THAT player go to Cleveland you just know there are doubts from the start because of how dysfunctional the organization is at the time.  <<<Maybe this was Mitch as well. Because that's how I saw it at the time and one of the reasons why I wanted him to sit the bench and not take a single snap in his rookie year until there was some stability upstairs. 

4) Then there are some who just don't have it in them. Either by choice or not. Some have unfortunate injuries by trying too hard to succeed or others who just don't simply don't have the passion to grow. 

5) And then you have those very RARE players who do just "have it" and can blow up no matter where they go. Good luck finding these gems. 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I am all for changing execs and coaches when they have shown they cannot build contending teams.

If that is after 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, it doesn't matter to me. 

So you wanna become the Browns....got it.

[JAF-N72EX]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:48 PM, WindyCity said:

Teams use the tag every year.

Pace has an ego and has been dragged through the mud by the fans and media alike for the last 3 years straight. So if Mitch plays well and he has a chance to throw it back in their faces then you can best believe that he's not gonna pass up that opportunity.

Besides, if Mitch does play well and Pace let's him walk, then this would only throw even more fuel on the fire from fans and media--ten fold. Because this would also mean that Pace is letting go of the first Qb since Harbaugh in 1990 to make the playoffs twice in any 3 year span.

That said, I'm so down on Mitch at this point that it would take a big season to convince me that he is a QB worth keeping long-term. And for that reason I would like for him to be tagged on a prove it deal and get the Kirk Cousins treatment before fully investing in him. But that's just me being a selfish fa because I will never agree with any team shackling a player.
 

Edited May 15, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[G08]

5 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Right. My assumption was no playoffs. In your scenario he stays because you can't fire a guy after making the playiffs

My 'bet' comment was a blanket statement regarding how the season goes. I don't free any scenario occurring where both Pace and Nagy are fired after this season. Playoffs or not.

[AZBearsFan]

15 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

What if he repeats his 2018 performance?

If 2018 is as good as it’s going to get for Mitch then I wouldn’t tag him. I’d go with Foles and move on. 2018 was fine for me then when we thought it was a stepping stone to more. If that’s the peak then it’s never going to be good enough. 

[AZBearsFan]

15 hours ago, WindyCity said:

They could easily work on an extension. The tag just ensures they don’t get Goffed. 

If he wants that comical Goff contract after 1 good year you aren’t forced to accept that.

I don’t disagree, but you know as well as I do that’s not how it usually works. Dak is tagged but almost certainly will be extended before the season. Tannehill got paid. Goff got paid. Hell, Foles got paid. Other than Cousins the QB almost never plays out the tag, and that’s the Redskins being the Redskins.  

[AZBearsFan]

12 hours ago, dll2000 said:

2021 Franchise tag after Mahomes and Dak and Watson sign is going to be something like 38 million guaranteed.   Maybe less, but a lot.  For one year.

MT is not going to turn that down unless he has a Mahomes 2018 type season or wins the Super Bowl for Bears. 

I don’t think he’d turn it down. If tag level of play happens in 2020 I think Pace would want a longer commitment than one year at premium dollar. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by AZBearsFan

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

When will people realize that the draft is a total lottery---ESPECIALLY when it come to QB's. And just like the lottery, sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. But that doesn't mean the GM's are idiots either. Ozzie Newsome was one of the best GM's and had one of the best eyes for talent at the time and he still had his fair share of misses at the QB position too (traded up to draft Kyle Boller). Conversely, Belichick nearly passed on Brady for Tim Ratay. 

The problem was the Bears doubled down on Trubisky.  Let's not mince words.  Khalil Mack is a tremendous player, but two FRPs AND $141M is a ton of coin to pay for a non-QB.  In 2020, of the 24 players with cap hits north of $20M only 9 of them are non-QBs.  And Khalil Mack has the highest cap hit of any non-QB.  That's a HUGE price to pay.

[WindyCity]

11 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

No. It's a cop out to use hindsight but it fits for people like yourself who are looking for something else that fits your agenda. Bottom line.  And especially you, as a fan, who agreed with the decision AND the player at the time. You may have been on the Watson train but you weren't exactly asking to get off the Trubisky train at the next exit either like you're trying to ignore/portray. 

You are acting as if Pace taking Mitch was another Shea McClellin move and he drafted a nobody with a premium pick.

You praised pace for taking a chance and going all out to get his guy after the draft but now you are using those very same things against him. It's a cop out and it's weak as hell. You are only using hindsight to criticize Pace because a player did not work out in the end. Period. Mitch was widely considered neck and neck with Watson as the clear #1 QB in the draft and just because Pace and those people turned out to be wrong it doesn't mean it was the wrong choice. 

Look at the other end of the spectrum. Show me ONE person on this earth that expected Mahomes to be as good as he has been when he was widely a 2nd round draft pick ....I'll wait. See? Everyone was wrong about that too. Now show me another GM who drafted a player that didn't live up to his draft pick.....I'll still wait.  

You think Pace should be fired because it was the wrong choice, only IN HINDISIGHT, and that's a cop out. That's like you saying now "well, if Burrows works out for the Bengals then the FO is a genius but if he doesn't work out then the entire FO needs to be fired in 3 years" even though Burrows was widely considered the best QB in the draft-- which makes him the right QB to choose at the time, regardless of how it plays out in the future. 

We have desperately needed a QB for years and were finally in a good position to get one (who was the census best QB in the draft) and Pace took a chance to be sure that he got "his guy" in order to finally give us some stability at the position. Not only did he be sure to get his guy (because other teams were looking at Mitch too) but he literally put his job on the line and did everything in his power to build around him and give US (the fan base) hope again that we have not seen or had in nearly a decade. 

And you want him fired because of it?! GTFOH. Have you forgotten how many years we have spent being a laughing stock? Or when even those 6-8 win seasons were a joke and felt closer to a 3 win season?
 

Unfortunately GMs are judged by the results of their picks. They are also held to a hire standard than media and fans. Where Mitch was ranked by Kiper, McShay, Mayock, does not absolve a GM of actually getting the pick right.

I believe that Pace should be fired because of the lack of results.

See, we agree, he put his job on the line and failed so that means he should be ....

 

All GMs get judged based on the results of their picks. They are always judged in hindsight because PROCESS doesn't matter compared to RESULTS. I am not sure what is challenging about that concept.

Edited May 15, 2020 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t disagree, but you know as well as I do that’s not how it usually works. Dak is tagged but almost certainly will be extended before the season. Tannehill got paid. Goff got paid. Hell, Foles got paid. Other than Cousins the QB almost never plays out the tag, and that’s the Redskins being the Redskins.  

Agreed, but the Bears would have options if he plays well. They would not HAVE to do anything.