DannyB Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Kip Smithers said: Brady had Gronk one of the best TEs ever and Edelman one of the best slot receivers in the league plus McDaniels. Peyton had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark. Rodgers has had his share of receivers. Of course what Mahomes has helps but we acting like all these great QBs haven’t had great weapons and haven’t also benefited. Okay for some reason people seem to be missing my point, and I don't get it because it wasn't that complicated. Lemme use caps lock: *EVERY ELITE HALL OF FAME-BOUND VETERAN QUARTERBACK HAS HAD GOOD SEASONS WITHOUT ELITE WEAPONS.* The only thing I mean, is specifically what I typed there, and those words only. Here are a list of statements that are NOT what I mean, and are NOT what I said above: -No other elite quarterbacks have ever had top-tier weapons. -Every other great quarterback has played their entire career without a good receiver. -Every other receiving corps that every other hall of fame quarterback has ever had throughout every season of their entire career is straight garbage. -If you have great weapons you can't be a great quarterback. -Patrick Mahomes sucks. -Patrick Mahomes is a product of the offense and coaching around him. -Patrick Mahomes will never prove himself as a quarterback who elevates lesser receivers. Okay? None of those, are what I said in my statement. You are mistaking what I meant, or you're trying to insert something I didn't say into what I said. Don't twist it up, it's very simple. What you've all said is correct: Every elite quarterback, at some point in their career, or more likely, stretches of it, have had GREAT weapons around them. I agree, never said otherwise. But it is ALSO true that they've had seasons WITHOUT great weapons, and still been successful. Mahomes hasn't had the opportunity to do that yet, but I don't doubt he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, MD4L said: Calling him the GOAT at 24 years old would be irresponsible. It’s disrespectful to the guys who’ve put in the work for 15-20 years in the NFL and insulting because we don’t know what he’ll do in the future. So I think he’s got a bright future but where he’s at and what he’s done has been incredible. He’s also faced some adversity (the Kareem Hunt situation his first year as a starter, getting hurt last season, and the loss vs New England where he didn’t get the ball). I’m just happy to see where he is and excited as he navigates through upcoming career challenges. I wasn't implying he's a HoFer already, my mistake if it came off that way. Although if I was a betting man, I'd say he will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciimo Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 ^^ you're going to have to point out the times manning and big ben have had good seasons without elite weapons for me @DannyB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Chiefer said: It’s also the environment Reid fosters. He allows guys he trusts to check out of plays. He knows the connection that Kelce/Mahomes has and allows Kelce a lot of freedom with his routes. It works more often than not and keeps a fun atmosphere. but Mahomes talent is the engine that drives this thing. Reid needs that off script nature for his offense to truly shine. Mahomes has actually made Andy better, notice how time management is no longer an issue? He’s winning the timeout battle at the end of games. Plays are coming in faster, Chiefs are more dialed in and prepared during the final minutes. Thats all Mahomes getting on Andy’s *** You remember how dreadful we were in the red zone pre Mahomes, All those times we would get cute and settle for field goals. Yeah I definitely don’t miss that. For as much as Mahomes benefits from Reid, He definitely covers up A TON of the flaws Reid came here with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Asciimo said: ^^ you're going to have to point out the times manning and big ben have had good seasons without elite weapons for me @DannyB. I'd say Manning towards the end of his Indy tenure, 09-10. It's a good group, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't call it elite. Wayne was a really good receiver, but it was towards the tail end of his prime and I don't think he was ever like "arguably best in the league" good. Garcon was also good, but again, not top tier. After that it's pretty meh. Joey Addai was fine for a few years but whatever, fairly replaceable. Earlier in Ben's career, like '07 and '09 he had really good seasons without an amazing group of weapons to work with. Ward is of course no slouch, and Holmes was good for a couple years there, but nothing really top tier at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, samsel23 said: You remember how dreadful we were in the red zone pre Mahomes, All those times we would get cute and settle for field goals. Yeah I definitely don’t miss that. For as much as Mahomes benefits from Reid, He definitely covers up A TON of the flaws Reid came here with. Yeah anybody who goes too hard for a "Reid makes Mahomes" angle just hates Mahomes or is trying to be a hot take artist or something. People on here basically crapped on Reid up until even just a few years ago. I think you can say that Reid will pretty much get the most anybody could possibly get out of any particular quarterback, so in that sense Mahomes has certainly benefited, but Reid is also severely deficient in multiple head coaching related areas, but Mahomes covers it up by being so goddamn ridiculous. Without Mahomes I don't think Reid is in the Hall of Fame discussion that boiled up last year when they made the SB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said: 1 hour ago, N4L said: The refs NEVER call KC OL for holding Want to protect the golden boy I guess. So many blatant holds dont get called I want to take a moment to apologize to the Pats fans who had to endure this the past decade. I now understand. https://mobile.twitter.com/Rob_Lowder/status/1225843651244281856 ^^^ pretty clear hold. There were others. Do I need to pull more receipts? There were a few no calls on blatant holds tonight as well. I posted that after Crosby was very obviously being held from behind after beating the RT "NEVER" was an overstatement, but that call seems to get missed more in the chiefs benefit than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, Asciimo said: ^^ you're going to have to point out the times manning and big ben have had good seasons without elite weapons for me @DannyB. Do you ever wonder why those guys continue to be great despite weapons coming and going throughout their careers? The Steelers literally let go of, at the time, the best WR and RB from a production standpoint in the game in AB and Bell and continued (and continue today) to roll. This isn't hard to understand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, N4L said: https://mobile.twitter.com/Rob_Lowder/status/1225843651244281856 ^^^ pretty clear hold. There were others. Do I need to pull more receipts? There were a few no calls on blatant holds tonight as well. I posted that after Crosby was very obviously being held from behind after beating the RT "NEVER" was an overstatement, but that call seems to get missed more in the chiefs benefit than not. Would you like every fan from every single team to pull up receipts about the amount of holding calls that seemingly go unnoticed? Some of which that are ALOT more egregious than the one posted? You seem to be placing your blame on the wrong target. Edited November 23, 2020 by JAF-N72EX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, N4L said: https://mobile.twitter.com/Rob_Lowder/status/1225843651244281856 ^^^ pretty clear hold. There were others. Do I need to pull more receipts? There were a few no calls on blatant holds tonight as well. I posted that after Crosby was very obviously being held from behind after beating the RT "NEVER" was an overstatement, but that call seems to get missed more in the chiefs benefit than not. That's not a hold, first of all. Was evaluated forever back in February. It's old news. But second of all, and more importantly, we've had more offensive holding penalties called against us than any other team in the league, and we've had the third fewest called against our opposition. Acting like refs are biased in our favor in terms of holdings is laughable. It's pure confirmation bias. People think we're going to start getting favorable treatment, so they look for it to happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 hours ago, DannyB said: All we're saying is, showing you can be successful at QB without a great toolbox of weapons is one thing Mahomes hasn't done yet. It's not his fault, he's only been the starter for a few years, he'll have to do it eventually, so I'm sorry if it feels like people are taking shots at your boy, but we're really not. Every other certified elite, HoF ticket punched QB has done it. I don't doubt Mahomes will do it, he's amazing. He just hasn't yet. Jim Kelly is in the Hall of Fame and he was surrounded by talent his whole career. Kurt Warner too (atleast he played great in his Super Bowl win) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidersedge Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Heart breaking but a great game. Raiders are still a few players away on defense to be a serious super bowl contender but they are getting closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 9 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: Will always prefer these games against the Raiders, as opposed to those folks in Denver(no one wants them to be good) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Jakuvious said: That's not a hold, first of all. Was evaluated forever back in February. It's old news. If that's not a hold, I don't know what a hold is. Like, give me a break...lol that's not a hold?! That's the definition of holding in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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