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Official 2021 WR Thread


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2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

You are incorrect.  

Currently DeVonta Smith leads the nation in receiving yards 1305 and touchdowns with 15 through only 9 games.

 

Ja'Marr Chase through 14 games had 1780 yards, 20 TDs.  DeVonta Smith will easily pass that if he plays 14 games which he will not be able to, yet he still could pass those numbers.  By the way Chase played with better talent around him last year, especially with Waddle only playing 4 out of those 9 games for Bama, and a better QB.  

 

Chase was great last season, but DeVonta Smith this year has done greater things than Chase did the year previous.  And like I said, I have zero doubt DeVonta is a better worker and a great competitor and plays the game with more passion and desire.  Will see how is better in the end, but give me DeVonta Smith over Chase all freaking day.  By the way, no way does Chase have OBJ type of athletic ability, no way Chase runs a 4.31 40 either.  Great player but yeah it is a little bit of what have you done lately, DeVonta Smith is only playing out of his mind this year and Chase is sitting at home.  So yeah kind of matters in ones current opinion a bit

 

He is not the wrong choice, I like him as a player and a prospect.  But if all one looks at is how fast you run the  40, that is kind of foolish and the list I showed before shows that point exactly.  The 40 time is important, it is not the be all and end all.  And sadly for Ruggs, he will get hurt again and again and again, because honestly he has his entire career, so that is also another massive negative.   So potentially having historically good numbers as a rookie wide receiver means nothing?  People talk off how great Justin Jefferson has been as if it is just luck thing or some random happenstance, which it is not.   And again it helps show your lack of a 4.3 40 time does not mean that much if you can do the other things well as a wide receiver, and as if 4.43 is some awful 40 number which it is not, but no he did not impress physically like some others did, so what.  

The 40 time argument is a joke. Ruggs has been clocked at 23.5 mph in game. That would be the fastest in the nfl aside from maybe Hill.Having someone who can house a slant (which we bafflingly haven’t called for him) is something special. Waller would excel in Minnesota with Thielen and Jefferson no doubt. This injury stuff you’re alluding to is hogwash with Ruggs. To the point where I seriously doubt you’ve watched him play significant snaps this year. Especially on all 22 like I have.
 

The same is true of devonta Smith. I don’t care what numbers he puts up in college. I know his skill set. It is excellent. But he lacks the physical tools for me to call him WR1 in this class. Those tools matter whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

Especially when Chase and Waddle are no slouch at separating and running routes.

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42 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I don't have cutups from this year, but that double move from Waddle at 3:40 is so telling of his pro potential. His ability in and out of his breaks is probably just as rare as his speed.

Special, special player. He is like a combo of Jeudy and Ruggs.

 

Yeah I think I like him more than any of the WRs in the class. He can threaten in so many ways. 
 

 

Also, I think Tylan Wallace becomes an elite receiver. He doesn’t have any special traits physically, but the dude is just raw AF. He’s gonna be like a Jarvis Landry/Hines Ward kind of player. 

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

The 40 time argument is a joke. Ruggs has been clocked at 23.5 mph in game. That would be the fastest in the nfl aside from maybe Hill.Having someone who can house a slant (which we bafflingly haven’t called for him) is something special. Waller would excel in Minnesota with Thielen and Jefferson no doubt. This injury stuff you’re alluding to is hogwash with Ruggs. To the point where I seriously doubt you’ve watched him play significant snaps this year. Especially on all 22 like I have.
 

The same is true of devonta Smith. I don’t care what numbers he puts up in college. I know his skill set. It is excellent. But he lacks the physical tools for me to call him WR1 in this class. Those tools matter whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

Especially when Chase and Waddle are no slouch at separating and running routes.

40 time argument is a joke?  Ok thanks for doing zero research about it yourself, and go ahead and take John Ross because of his great 40 time.  Sure I have not watched Henry Ruggs every snap this year, I cannot view every Raider game but you have also not watched Justin Jefferson as much as I have either, so.  Whatever dude, you clearly want Ruggs to become Tyreek Hill because you are jealous of the Chiefs team success, something the Raiders might not have for years.  So a players work ethic and development have nothing to do with the player as a hole?  Henry Ruggs III has been fast and athletic his entire life, he has to work hard like any other athlete sure, but his speed is a given gift and allows him success a lot easier than some others.  DeVonta Smith was nothing special as a freshman, is nothing amazing athletically but has worked his way into the best receiver in college football no question about it right now.  While Chase sat out the season because why, his team sucks *** and so does the QB and he did not want to look bad with bad QB play?  That sound like a great worker and competitor?  Maybe he had other reasons who knows.  Either way DeVonta Smith's development over the past four years has been more than impressive.  Give me skill set and work ethic over speed, and no Ruggs injury history is not "hogwash".  He does not take contact well, hopefully he has no long term injuries in the NFL but he has a very thin frame, does not do great with major contact in the legs when tackling and was injured on Bama multiple times in his career.  Thankfully nothing major but it was an issue.  

 

Waddle I love and I would take Waddle over Ruggs any day of the week because unlike Ruggs, Waddle can take contact and break tackles despite his injury this year.  He has more side to side wiggle to him where Ruggs is far more straight line speed and direct explosive ability.  Waddle's return ability really shows how great he is at running and making plays in the open field.  Early to say but I would take DeVonta Smith and Waddle over Ruggs and Jeudy no doubt about it if one is just looking at the two groups of receivers.  Still DeVonta has the best hands, is the best route runner of the group, is that a question for you?   Do those two things mean nothing to you because he does not impress walking off the bus, whatever I do not really care.

DeVonta Smith is a #1 WR.  On the field in the games does he struggle to get separation and get open?  No.  On the field does he struggle making athletic catches?  No.  On the field does he seem slow and lazy out there?  No.  So what will you say when he runs a 4.4 40, still think he is a **** athlete?  

 

Think what you wish, but Justin Jefferson has absolutely destroyed Henry Ruggs III as a rookie in terms of on the field play, but oh I forgot stats mean nothing?  Sure Chase and Waddle run good routes, who runs them better and who has better hands?  Again is that a question for you?  Chase is thicker, Waddle is better at breaking tackles and both are more explosive in terms of straight line speed.  That does not mean they are long term going to be a better professional football player, when DeVonta Smith has been preparing and working like a professional for four years and it is proven in his development and progression which will not stop when he gets to the league. 

Go ask Nick Saban behind closed doors out of those great four Bama receivers who is the hardest working player and who is the best competitor and the best leader.  I believe he would have one answer for all three questions if he did not have to be politically correct and could actually favor one player over another.  Mentally the attributes Smith brings combined with his play this season and skills puts him over the top for me.  

 

Amari Cooper was the #4 pick in the draft and no one questioned him as a #1 WR, but DeVonta Smith is question when he is better than Amari in everything outside of breaking tackles.  Sure Cooper is heavier and thicker, that is about it.  No reason why DeVonta cannot do what DeAndre Hopkins has done in the league.  Both have great hands and are great route runners and were possibly underrated in the process.  Only difference is with how great DeVonta Smith has been no way he drops out of the top 15 picks like Hopkins did.  If he does it will be another Justin Jefferson situation where teams are like, oh **** we should have taken that guy.  

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17 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

40 time argument is a joke?  Ok thanks for doing zero research about it yourself, and go ahead and take John Ross because of his great 40 time.  Sure I have not watched Henry Ruggs every snap this year, I cannot view every Raider game but you have also not watched Justin Jefferson as much as I have either, so. 

Yes because John Ross had a fast 40 and busted, everyone with a fast 40 must be a bust right? And timed speed on the field is way more important than a 40 without pads on. I don't see how you can overlook that. But do you.

Whatever dude, you clearly want Ruggs to become Tyreek Hill because you are jealous of the Chiefs team success, something the Raiders might not have for years. 

 Now we're going ad hominem? Where have I said that I'm jealous of the Chiefs success? They are great so that makes me jealous? I never actually compared Ruggs and Hill as players. They aren't the same kind of player. 

So a players work ethic and development have nothing to do with the player as a hole?  Henry Ruggs III has been fast and athletic his entire life, he has to work hard like any other athlete sure, but his speed is a given gift and allows him success a lot easier than some others. 

You're psychoanalyzing him based on him naturally being fast? Cute. Now you're bringing work ethic into it. Just because Ruggs is naturally fast, what does that have to do with work ethic. Your attempt to psychoanalyze is wrong. Saban actually called him one of the hardest workers and best competitors on the team.

DeVonta Smith was nothing special as a freshman, is nothing amazing athletically but has worked his way into the best receiver in college football no question about it right now.  While Chase sat out the season because why, his team sucks *** and so does the QB and he did not want to look bad with bad QB play?  That sound like a great worker and competitor?  Maybe he had other reasons who knows.  Either way DeVonta Smith's development over the past four years has been more than impressive. 

As for Chase, he has already shown why he is an elite WR prospect. What's more, he is simply protecting his health and his future earnings for his family. Doesn't make him a bad person or bad team player. Once he gets his money, he can play without fear of being injured and losing out on a high draft position. I said nothing about Devonta Smith's development. I couldn't care less how hard he's worked. I'm looking at him as a prospect.

Give me skill set and work ethic over speed, and no Ruggs injury history is not "hogwash".  He does not take contact well, hopefully he has no long term injuries in the NFL but he has a very thin frame, does not do great with major contact in the legs when tackling and was injured on Bama multiple times in his career.  Thankfully nothing major but it was an issue.  

He doesn't take contact well? Based on what? A freak knee sprain injury that he played through this year? He doesn't run through contact, but don't act like he didn't run through arm tackles at Alabama and go over the middle with no issues.

Waddle I love and I would take Waddle over Ruggs any day of the week because unlike Ruggs, Waddle can take contact and break tackles despite his injury this year.  He has more side to side wiggle to him where Ruggs is far more straight line speed and direct explosive ability.  Waddle's return ability really shows how great he is at running and making plays in the open field.  Early to say but I would take DeVonta Smith and Waddle over Ruggs and Jeudy no doubt about it if one is just looking at the two groups of receivers.  Still DeVonta has the best hands, is the best route runner of the group, is that a question for you?   Do those two things mean nothing to you because he does not impress walking off the bus, whatever I do not really care.

Just because I care about physical measurables doesn't mean I don't care about route running. It's actually one of the things I look at most closely when evaluating WR prospects. But it's just part of the equation.

DeVonta Smith is a #1 WR.  On the field in the games does he struggle to get separation and get open?  No.  On the field does he struggle making athletic catches?  No.  On the field does he seem slow and lazy out there? 

Yes. Against college corners, he will mismatch them brutally. And he has. I am projecting to the pro game. It stands to follow that I don't think his ridiculous college success will directly translate. I am not the only one who thinks this.

No.  So what will you say when he runs a 4.4 40, still think he is a **** athlete?  

Again you continue this puzzling strawman that I think only super fast 40s matter. I've never said Smith is a bad athlete. I actually think he's an excellent player.

Think what you wish, but Justin Jefferson has absolutely destroyed Henry Ruggs III as a rookie in terms of on the field play, but oh I forgot stats mean nothing? 

Did I say stats mean nothing? At this point, you're just whining because people disagree with your shallow assessment of a player that by your own admission you have hardly watched. Just talk it out with yourself. You're only making yourself look bad at this point.

Sure Chase and Waddle run good routes, who runs them better and who has better hands?  Again is that a question for you?  Chase is thicker, Waddle is better at breaking tackles and both are more explosive in terms of straight line speed. 

So speed, physicality, and contested catch ability don't factor in with route running? So Deandre Hopkins is worse than Keenan Allen simply because his route running is worse? I didn't know football was measured in absolutes.

That does not mean they are long term going to be a better professional football player, when DeVonta Smith has been preparing and working like a professional for four years and it is proven in his development and progression which will not stop when he gets to the league. 

"Preparing and working like a professional"? So the other players don't work hard? They don't prepare? I should somehow hold Devonta Smith in a higher light because of this?

Go ask Nick Saban behind closed doors out of those great four Bama receivers who is the hardest working player and who is the best competitor and the best leader.  I believe he would have one answer for all three questions if he did not have to be politically correct and could actually favor one player over another.  Mentally the attributes Smith brings combined with his play this season and skills puts him over the top for me.  

You're really beating a dead horse with work ethic here.

Amari Cooper was the #4 pick in the draft and no one questioned him as a #1 WR, but DeVonta Smith is question when he is better than Amari in everything outside of breaking tackles.  Sure Cooper is heavier and thicker, that is about it. 

Guess what. Amari Cooper was the unquestioned WR1. And you know what? Despite putting up good numbers throughout his career, he has struggled with #1 corners, consistency, and drops. Cooper is at worse, a very comparable route runner than Smith. He is more sudden, faster, and more physical. So I disagree. Cooper was a better prospect than Smith. And still hasn't translated perfectly. So I don't see your point.

No reason why DeVonta cannot do what DeAndre Hopkins has done in the league.  Both have great hands and are great route runners and were possibly underrated in the process.  Only difference is with how great DeVonta Smith has been no way he drops out of the top 15 picks like Hopkins did.  If he does it will be another Justin Jefferson situation where teams are like, oh **** we should have taken that guy.  

You can't be seriously comparing Devonta Smith in any way to Deandre Hopkins. They are completely different as players. Hopkins was not a technician coming out. The way he wins contested catches with physicality is completely different than the way Smith wins.

I have no desire to engage in this debate anymore. You seem to have some weird agenda against players because of "work ethic". You take other's rebuttal as a sign of "jealousy" toward other teams and engage in ad hominem? Yeah I'm out. 

 

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1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

You have brought up Tyreke Hill more than once, you actually said the only dude that compares to Tyreke Hill in the NFL in terms of his speed is Henry Ruggs. 

"His YAC ability and burst make him a nightmare, in that Tyreek Hill vein. He is a player you can actually compare to Tyreek Hill in terms of speed and explosion. In the last several years, the only other guy with that kind of speed I feel is Ruggs." just in case you forgot what you said yourself.

 

Saban calls a lot of players the hardest working and best competitors on the team at the time they come out for the draft, and it changes every year obviously with new players coming into the draft each year.  It is called selling your player and putting the best light on them.  You think he has never called anyone else a great worker and great competitor, he has?  My bet is if one asked behind closed doors who was the top in each for those four receivers it would be DeVonta Smith.

 

Ruggs does not take contact well based on how he took hits while on Alabama.  If he got hit low it was a problem at times and oddly did not react well more than once after a hard strike to his lower body.  Maybe because he does not have the thighs to take such a hit, he is narrow as well physically.  So is DeVonta who is thin but DeVonta has bigger hands and bigger feet as well as being taller/longer and more wiry strong I feel.  Ruggs is compact and explosive and benefits greatly from running away from defenders not through them or around them as much.

 

Yes I do hold it against Chase a little that he sat out in fear of looking bad with bad players around him.  Mac Jones was not a promise of greatness this year, some thought Young the FR would be the starter.   Yet Smith clearly committed to the team like many of his Bama teammates.  Granted they have a stacked offense coming back unlike LSU but still, if Chase is so great it should not matter who is throwing him the ball.  And if you do not care how hard a player works, well there it is.  I care greatly about how hard one works and the consistent professional effort they put forth day in and day out.

 

You do not think he will translate to the next level, that is great.  I will remember that one.

 

Look bad?  Sorry brohan but if anyone does not watch prospects consistently it would be you.  I have hardly watched Henry Ruggs?  No actually I watched him more than you did in college I am quite sure of that one, do I watch ever snap of the Raiders?  No I do not.  Yet once more you barely have watched Justin Jefferson, correct, yes that is correct.  So now I should bash you for not watching enough players?

 

"Beating a dead horse" on work ethic.  Ok you do not consider work ethic a factor in the evaluation, I think I get that, well then you are wildly underestimated the most important thing arguably in the professional development of a player.  Great idea.  Do not care about how hard a player works, or how professional he takes his craft or how consistently he strives to improve, great ******* idea.  

 

Get tired of this?  Sure I am as well.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You have brought up Tyreke Hill more than once, you actually said the only dude that compares to Tyreke Hill in the NFL in terms of his speed is Henry Ruggs. 

"His YAC ability and burst make him a nightmare, in that Tyreek Hill vein. He is a player you can actually compare to Tyreek Hill in terms of speed and explosion. In the last several years, the only other guy with that kind of speed I feel is Ruggs." just in case you forgot what you said yourself.

 

Saban calls a lot of players the hardest working and best competitors on the team at the time they come out for the draft, and it changes every year obviously with new players coming into the draft each year.  It is called selling your player and putting the best light on them.  You think he has never called anyone else a great worker and great competitor, he has?  My bet is if one asked behind closed doors who was the top in each for those four receivers it would be DeVonta Smith.

 

Ruggs does not take contact well based on how he took hits while on Alabama.  If he got hit low it was a problem at times and oddly did not react well more than once after a hard strike to his lower body.  Maybe because he does not have the thighs to take such a hit, he is narrow as well physically.  So is DeVonta who is thin but DeVonta has bigger hands and bigger feet as well as being taller/longer and more wiry strong I feel.  Ruggs is compact and explosive and benefits greatly from running away from defenders not through them or around them as much.

 

Yes I do hold it against Chase a little that he sat out in fear of looking bad with bad players around him.  Mac Jones was not a promise of greatness this year, some thought Young the FR would be the starter.   Yet Smith clearly committed to the team like many of his Bama teammates.  Granted they have a stacked offense coming back unlike LSU but still, if Chase is so great it should not matter who is throwing him the ball.  And if you do not care how hard a player works, well there it is.  I care greatly about how hard one works and the consistent professional effort they put forth day in and day out.

 

You do not think he will translate to the next level, that is great.  I will remember that one.

 

Look bad?  Sorry brohan but if anyone does not watch prospects consistently it would be you.  I have hardly watched Henry Ruggs?  No actually I watched him more than you did in college I am quite sure of that one, do I watch ever snap of the Raiders?  No I do not.  Yet once more you barely have watched Justin Jefferson, correct, yes that is correct.  So now I should bash you for not watching enough players?

 

"Beating a dead horse" on work ethic.  Ok you do not consider work ethic a factor in the evaluation, I think I get that, well then you are wildly underestimated the most important thing arguably in the professional development of a player.  Great idea.  Do not care about how hard a player works, or how professional he takes his craft or how consistently he strives to improve, great ******* idea.  

 

Get tired of this?  Sure I am as well.

 

 

In terms of straight line speed. Yes. Look up their MPH in terms of timed speed on the field and tell me I'm wrong. Next gen stats has covered it extensively. 2 players can share an attribute and not be comparable as players. I am too tired to pull it up.

But anyways deuces. I am too jealous of the Chiefs success so I will go cry in a corner.

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23 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Give me the best 2nd round grade WRs because that's seems to be the golden area where the Packers nail their WR picks. I don't necessarily think they'll take one but we all know they won't spend a 1 on a WR. Trade back into the 2nd and take one ala Jordy Nelson or just stand pat and take one ala Davante Adams. 

I think Rondale Moore would be absurdly dangerous in the Packers offense but he's not likely to be around at the Packers 1st rounder, let alone after. Rashod Bateman seems to be an ideal fit with the current team/scheme. We might need a "take the top off the defense" type if we sour on MVS as well and Tylan Wallace is arguably the best deep ball guy in this draft. Chris Olave is a tactician at WR that Rodgers would probably love. 

Need more names that would fit what we do. @CWood21 would probably know better than most about how our offense runs but @jrry32 could also probably chip in here.

Not sure this WR class will be as deep as last year's class, but I thin it's a bit better at the top.  Not that it's a poor class by any means, but last year's was an anomaly in terms of depth.  Last year, I had 10 WRs with top 64 grades.  This year, I think I'm going to be around 7/8 with top 64 grades.

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On 12/9/2020 at 11:22 AM, beekay414 said:

Give me the best 2nd round grade WRs because that's seems to be the golden area where the Packers nail their WR picks. I don't necessarily think they'll take one but we all know they won't spend a 1 on a WR. Trade back into the 2nd and take one ala Jordy Nelson or just stand pat and take one ala Davante Adams. 

I think Rondale Moore would be absurdly dangerous in the Packers offense but he's not likely to be around at the Packers 1st rounder, let alone after. Rashod Bateman seems to be an ideal fit with the current team/scheme. We might need a "take the top off the defense" type if we sour on MVS as well and Tylan Wallace is arguably the best deep ball guy in this draft. Chris Olave is a tactician at WR that Rodgers would probably love. 

Need more names that would fit what we do. @CWood21 would probably know better than most about how our offense runs but @jrry32 could also probably chip in here.

possible 2-4 round Donald Driver types.

1. Elijah Moore (1st rounder imo)

2. Kadarius Toney

3. Romeo Doubs

4. Tylan Wallace

5. Damonte Coxie

6. Amari Rodgers

7. Dyami Brown

8. Daz Newsome

9. Anthony Schwartz

10. Amon Ra St Brown

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13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You lost me when you mentioned Donald Driver-types, and then proceeded to mention Tylan Wallace.

Was a loose reference but Wallace isn't as fast as some are making him out to be. He punches above his weight, blocks well and separates. He reminds me some of a bigger Tyler Lockett.

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5 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Was a loose reference but Wallace isn't as fast as some are making him out to be. He punches above his weight, blocks well and separates. He reminds me some of a bigger Tyler Lockett.

He’s not fast at all really. He’s got elite route running and is, as you said, someone that punches way above his weight. That’s why I like the Landry comparison. I think Tylan might have a little more juice that Landry tho.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure Tylan is the guy I want the most from this class. The top guys are obviously better but they won't be able to be had in the Packers draft range. Tylan in the early to mid-2nd via trade back or trade up seems like the best value for the G&G. Just a tough physical catcher of the football with deep shot ability. Get him in a room with Davante Adams and watch him blossom.

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