Goff’s future with the Rams

[StLunatic88]

47 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

The purpose of her article was to outline the 3 options for Goff ( Competition, Trade, Cut). The competition was most likely, followed by trade, and least likely, cut.

Very much so. And she puts a lot of information and stock into the Competition portion of it, because that is what is the most likely outcome of all of this. In my opinion, a much better chance than the other 2 options combined. 

But the biggest thing I get out of it was something you quoted, when linking Goff being pressured by 4 rushers, that is just as much of an indictment on the OL (if not more) than on Goff. And her biggest point isn’t that Wolford is better, but that maybe you can hide some of those deficiencies with his mobility, which again says you need to fix the OL (and weapons) not change the offense.

Slapping a bandaid on the offense isn’t getting us to the Super Bowl. Fix the actual issues, that’s how we get back there. 

[BStanRamFan]

7 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Very much so. And she puts a lot of information and stock into the Competition portion of it, because that is what is the most likely outcome of all of this. In my opinion, a much better chance than the other 2 options combined. 

But the biggest thing I get out of it was something you quoted, when linking Goff being pressured by 4 rushers, that is just as much of an indictment on the OL (if not more) than on Goff. And her biggest point isn’t that Wolford is better, but that maybe you can hide some of those deficiencies with his mobility, which again says you need to fix the OL (and weapons) not change the offense.

Slapping a bandaid on the offense isn’t getting us to the Super Bowl. Fix the actual issues, that’s how we get back there. 

I agree with your deduction, but if that's the case then why does Snead and McVay's approach to fixing this center around Goff and not the O-Line? It's fairly easy for them to say, "For a second year in a row, we have not done a good job protecting Jared and we must make it a priority to get that corrected going forward". It's a line that coaches have used in the past. It's calling out a unit vs. an individual player and we're keeping Kromer on as our O-line coach. 

My assumption: Fans may see it as the O-line being an issue. The people in the building do not. 

What's yours?

[BStanRamFan]

FWIW I'm reading Stafford to SF is close to done. They are hammering out the details. It takes them out of the running for Watson. First QB domino could fall shortly. 

[jrry32]

51 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I agree with your deduction, but if that's the case then why does Snead and McVay's approach to fixing this center around Goff and not the O-Line? It's fairly easy for them to say, "For a second year in a row, we have not done a good job protecting Jared and we must make it a priority to get that corrected going forward". It's a line that coaches have used in the past. It's calling out a unit vs. an individual player and we're keeping Kromer on as our O-line coach. 

My assumption: Fans may see it as the O-line being an issue. The people in the building do not. 

What's yours?

Maybe the people in the building recognize that both are issues and want to motivate Jared to play with an edge next year in hopes it brings the best out of him.

44 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

FWIW I'm reading Stafford to SF is close to done. They are hammering out the details. It takes them out of the running for Watson. First QB domino could fall shortly. 

Well, there's the first domino to fall. I expected that to happen.

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

I agree with your deduction, but if that's the case then why does Snead and McVay's approach to fixing this center around Goff and not the O-Line? It's fairly easy for them to say, "For a second year in a row, we have not done a good job protecting Jared and we must make it a priority to get that corrected going forward". It's a line that coaches have used in the past. It's calling out a unit vs. an individual player and we're keeping Kromer on as our O-line coach. 

My assumption: Fans may see it as the O-line being an issue. The people in the building do not. 

What's yours?

I have always agreed that Jared is an issue. He is just one of multiple issues. But I think it is easier in our current state (cap situation/draft capital) to fix the other issues than it is to upgrade on QB right now.

But as pointed out by both Rodrigue and Silver, this is a weird way to go about this if it isn’t mostly about “everyone has to earn their spot” which I’m completely fine with (and feel very confident that a healthy Goff wins out over anyone we have or can bring in). And if that’s the case, this is also a shining example that they can hold up to everyone on the roster, whenever for the next decade saying “see, we’re not messing around, you’re all accountable and we are willing to put your spot up for grabs at any time” Thinking specifically about Ramsey in a couple of years.

If it was at all realistic that we were major players for Watson, or if Rodgers was a real thing, or if we had the cap room for Dak, I’d be all about those options. It’s the insinuation that we are just dumping Goff just because and we will roll the dice with someone else. Be it Wolford or Minshew or a Rookie or Brissett, none of those guys are automatic upgrades. I’d argue they aren’t even upgrades on these Goff down years, and if we can sure up the offense, and Goff bounces back, none of them hold a candle to ‘17-18 Goff. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by StLunatic88

[rocky_rams]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I have always agreed that Jared is an issue. He is just one of multiple issues. But I think it is easier in our current state (cap situation/draft capital) to fix the other issues than it is to upgrade on QB right now.

But as pointed out by both Rodrigue and Silver, this is a weird way to go about this if it isn’t mostly about “everyone has to earn their spot” which I’m completely fine with (and feel very confident that a healthy Goff wins out over anyone we have or can bring in). And if that’s the case, this is also a shining example that they can hold up to everyone on the roster, whenever for the next decade saying “see, we’re not messing around, you’re all accountable and we are willing to put your spot up for grabs at any time” Thinking specifically about Ramsey in a couple of years.

If it was at all realistic that we were major players for Watson, or if Rodgers was a real thing, or if we had the cap room for Dak, I’d be all about those options. It’s the insinuation that we are just dumping Goff just because and we will roll the dice with someone else. Be it Wolford or Minshew or a Rookie or Brissett, none of those guys are automatic upgrades. I’d argue they aren’t even upgrades on these Goff down years, and if we can sure up the offense, and Goff bounces back, none of them hold a candle to ‘17-18 Goff. 

I’d keep Goff over Dak

[StLunatic88]

26 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I’d keep Goff over Dak

Which I think is a fair position to take, especially post-injury Dak, where we have no idea how much mobility he will still have or use. 

Especially if McVay would recommit to creating an innovative and dynamic offense once again, instead of looking for a shortcut

[El Ramster]

I fear that if we trade for Watson. It won’t be enough. 

[BStanRamFan]

Jalen Ramsey did some "Versuz" ProBowl stream yesterday with Nuk Hopkins. The topic of Watson came up and Ramsey mentioned "You know where he's going" (eluding to LA). Now this is meaningless, but it is interesting because they share the same agent and that he's openly pushing for the Rams to bring in a new QB.

He also commented on a Watson IG post saying "He looks like an LA man". 

We lack the 2021 draft capital to pull this off and would likely have to move Goff for a draft pick with someone else (a la @jrry32's example to Indy for #21). But let's say by miracle we get someone to give us a late first or early 2nd for Goff. What could a package look like?

 

2021: Goff Trade pick + #57

2022: 1st and 2nd

2023: 1st and 3rd

Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods

 

I think that would make us competitive, but NYJ would still have the edge with #2 overall and another 1st this year. Watson would have to remove NYJ from his shortlist to make our option be considered. That offer looks ridiculous, but keep in mind its a top 5 QB in the NFL entering his prime. 

[JonStark]

1 minute ago, BStanRamFan said:

Jalen Ramsey did some "Versuz" ProBowl stream yesterday with Nuk Hopkins. The topic of Watson came up and Ramsey mentioned "You know where he's going" (eluding to LA). Now this is meaningless, but it is interesting because they share the same agent and that he's openly pushing for the Rams to bring in a new QB.

He also commented on a Watson IG post saying "He looks like an LA man". 

We lack the 2021 draft capital to pull this off and would likely have to move Goff for a draft pick with someone else (a la @jrry32's example to Indy for #21). But let's say by miracle we get someone to give us a late first or early 2nd for Goff. What could a package look like?

 

2021: Goff Trade pick + #57

2022: 1st and 2nd

2023: 1st and 3rd

Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods

 

I think that would make us competitive, but NYJ would still have the edge with #2 overall and another 1st this year. Watson would have to remove NYJ from his shortlist to make our option be considered. That offer looks ridiculous, but keep in mind its a top 5 QB in the NFL entering his prime. 

I'd love to get Watson, but I'm not at that price. 

[LeotheLion]

Just now, JonStark said:

I'd love to get Watson, but I'm not at that price. 

I think I'd agree. I'd do it if it didn't involve Kupp or Woods. Deshaun needs people to throw to. 

[BStanRamFan]

Just now, LeotheLion said:

I think I'd agree. I'd do it if it didn't involve Kupp or Woods. Deshaun needs people to throw to. 

Pretty much anyone but Donald and Ramsey are on the table for me. Kupp OR Woods, but not both. We would still have Jefferson who I love  along with likely a cheap veteran FA to round out the top 3. If we have Watson, Donald, and Ramsey in LA, the veteran FA's will flock. 

[jrry32]

32 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I'd love to get Watson, but I'm not at that price. 

I'm in agreement. I'd rather throw in a 2024 conditional pick that could become a first. We're going to need some early picks to build a team if we trade our firsts for Watson. And I wouldn't want to include our WRs in the trade. I'd like to have the flexibility to trade one for a second if we want draft capital this year. The simple reality is that we can't outbid the Jets or Dolphins if they want Watson badly, Watson wants to play there, and the Texans want to deal with them. The only opening we have is if one of the three above things is missing.

[stl4life07]

We don’t have to outbid anyone. If Watson wants to go to the Rams because maybe Ramsey talked him into thinking it’s the place he needs to be with the best defense and a great offense with just the QB to put the team to Superbowl favorites then Watson is going to want to be in LA. 
 

Watson has a no trade clause so he could say send him to LA or don’t send him no where. It’s like what Harden did in the NBA. He said he wanted to go to Brooklyn. Now he also said Philly and Miami but we know Brooklyn was his main destination because him and KD talked during the offseason about teaming up. Then Kyrie we found out was also on board with the move. So yeah if Ramsey is talking to Watson and he knows ok Watson might want to come to LA then it will happen and the Rams won’t have to outbid nobody. 

[LeotheLion]

40 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Pretty much anyone but Donald and Ramsey are on the table for me. Kupp OR Woods, but not both. We would still have Jefferson who I love  along with likely a cheap veteran FA to round out the top 3. If we have Watson, Donald, and Ramsey in LA, the veteran FA's will flock. 

The veteran FAs that are playing on minimum level deals aren't going to do much for the team though. I love Watson but the idea that we'd trade 3 firsts, a 2nd, and 2 3rds and have to throw in a top 20-30 WR is insane to me. Me personally, I'd rather use those picks to go get a guy in a draft who is cost controlled for 4 years and better the rest of the roster. 

You love Jefferson but McVay clearly doesn't. Maybe he will be ready next year to step up but I'm concerned that McVay didn't trust him over Reynolds. I'd like him to slide into a WR3 role but WR2 is a 100% snap guy.