Covid-19 News/Discussion

[Danger]

22 minutes ago, MrDrew said:

The “young and healthy” argument should have gone away when the first 20-21yr old college football player died, with no underlying conditions. 

Is that not anecdotal evidence? Never said that it can't happen, just that it's far less likely.

[Danger]

Is there another one you're referring to? The one that comes up upon a google search is Jaimin Stephens

 

https://www.si.com/college/2020/09/09/jamain-stephens-division-ii-lineman-no-cause-of-death

"Jamain Stephens wore a size-19 shoe, could deadlift 635 pounds at the ripe age of 14 and could palm an iPad withe one hand. Stephens, listed at 355 pounds, was immovable as a nose guard and athletic enough to play fullback in goal-line packages, even once scoring a touchdown from two yards out."

 

Obesity and overweight are huge contributors to the lethality of the disease.

[ramssuperbowl99]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

While I believe the likelihood of long term side effects is low, I think it's still more likely than COVID doing me in if I were to be infected. 

Please provide data, or other mechanisms in support of how a drug cleared from the system in 24 hours and no physiological changes from baseline within 45 days could have long term side effects that we don't know about, in order to substantiate this statement.

[MrDrew]

26 minutes ago, Danger said:

Is that not anecdotal evidence? Never said that it can't happen, just that it's far less likely.

It’s not anecdotal evidence because it keeps happening. It hasn’t been an isolated incident, and that article wasn’t the first player. It was a kid in CO. 

Thinking that being young and healthy will save you has killed a lot of people. That’s not an opinion, or anecdotal, that’s fact. If you still feel it’s worth the risk, just stay home unless it’s absolutely necessary to go out, and wear a mask if you have to. Keep yourself, and the rest of us safe. 

[Mesa_Titan]

1 minute ago, MrDrew said:

It’s not anecdotal evidence because it keeps happening. It hasn’t been an isolated incident, and that article wasn’t the first player. It was a kid in CO. 

Thinking that being young and healthy will save you has killed a lot of people. That’s not an opinion, or anecdotal, that’s fact. If you still feel it’s worth the risk, just stay home unless it’s absolutely necessary to go out, and wear a mask if you have to. Keep yourself, and the rest of us safe. 

This part is my problem. The vaccine is available and has been for a while now. Why does someone need to stay at home or wear a mask for other people when if they wanted to be vaccinated they could have?

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

Stuff

Good for you for voicing your opinion in the face of the inevitable backlash you could have received. I was in the same boat as you but I'm a little older. I don't get flu shots ever and never have. I never get sick but understood I could still pass it to people so I was cautious as a result of having high risk family members (and after my stepmom caught it from a Dr visit and had it for 90+ days, I'm glad I acted the way I did). Ultimately I got the vaccine due to the recommendation of family members in the medical field who would obviously never lead me astray and after learning more as well which a few people here were patient and very good resources. I would like to see everyone get vaccinated but I'm not going to e-castrate anyone who chooses not to nor look down upon them. I would hope no one else would but there's interesting people in this world. I'll leave it at that.

Edited September 29, 2021 by BobbyPhil1781

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

In short, for me personally, while unlikely, the potential long term side effects outweigh the possibility of getting COVID

Your fears about potential side effects are not uncommon and media/internet have certainly stoked those fears.
In an earlier post that I wrote, ( with help from rams99) we talked about the fact that the vaccine is out of your body in a matter of hours.

So how do you propose the vaccine would cause these potential side effects months or years later ? And how would you convince the thousands of scientists who worked on the vaccines or reviewed them at the FDA to keep quiet about these potential side effects ? The people at the FDA have families too

I'm certain that any number of anecdotes exist where somebody got vaccinated and their cat died a week later...
But there just isn't credible scientific evidence to support your fears. And if we don't have any credible science to support your fear - then what you have left is an irrational fear. No big deal - we all have those !
We are all irrational at some point - otherwise there wouldn't be any Browns fans.

Side effects are a part of every med, supplement people take. The FDA reviews new meds under the mantra of Risk vs Reward. If you dose a cancer med and your hair falls out - that kinda sucks but it beats dying. If a nasal decongestant made your hair fall out, nobody would take it and the FDA wouldn't approve it.

Stuffy nose = zero side effects acceptable
Leukemia- many side effects acceptable

Now in your comment above- you've done your own Risk/Reward equation and come to the conclusion that you are "better" off not getting vaccinated. But like any formula, if you have bad inputs- you're going to have erroneous outputs

The very best & smartest scientists we have on this planet are on board with getting vaccinated ( even young people)- and they understand the risk/reward equation better than most.

They used different ( credible) inputs than you did and came to a different ( opposite) conclusion

So the question becomes - why do you think you know better than the people who know the most ? And why are you willing to bet the single most important thing in your life (health) on your limited knowledge ?
Do you also second- guess the mechanic who serviced your airplane ? 😎

In the end, I think you've just rationalized your decision ( normal human behavior) - but your decision doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I will respectfully answer any questions you have - and kudos to you for sharing an unpopular opinion
This is tough stuff and I wish you all the best

We can chat about your concerns over these vaccines vs the previous vaccines in a separate post

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

30 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

This part is my problem. The vaccine is available and has been for a while now. Why does someone need to stay at home or wear a mask for other people when if they wanted to be vaccinated they could have?

How about the people who want it but can’t get it?  
 

Do they not matter or are you not aware they exist?

Edited September 29, 2021 by LETSGOBROWNIES

[Danger]

5 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Your fears about potential side effects are not uncommon and media/internet have certainly stoked those fears.
In an earlier post that I wrote, ( with help from rams99) we talked about the fact that the vaccine is out of your body in a matter of hours.

So how do you propose the vaccine would cause these potential side effects months or years later ? And how would you convince the thousands of scientists who worked on the vaccines or reviewed them at the FDA to keep quiet about these potential side effects ? The people at the FDA have families too

I'm certain that any number of anecdotes exist where somebody got vaccinated and their cat died a week later...
But there just isn't credible scientific evidence to support your fears. And if we don't have any credible science to support your fear - then what you have left is an irrational fear. No big deal - we all have those !
We are all irrational at some point - otherwise there wouldn't be any Browns fans.

Side effects are a part of every med, supplement people take. The FDA reviews new meds under the mantra of Risk vs Reward. If you dose a cancer med and your hair falls out - that kinda sucks but it beats dying. If a nasal decongestant made your hair fall out, nobody would take it and the FDA wouldn't approve it.

Stuffy nose = zero side effects acceptable
Leukemia- many side effects acceptable

Now in your comment above- you've done your own Risk/Reward equation and come to the conclusion that you are "better" off not getting vaccinated. But like any formula, if you have bad inputs- you're going to have erroneous outputs

The very best & smartest scientists we have on this planet are on board with getting vaccinated ( even young people)- and they understand the risk/reward equation better than most.

They used different ( credible) inputs than you did and came to a different ( opposite) conclusion

So the question becomes - why do you think you know better than the people who know the most ? And why are you willing to bet the single most important thing in your life (health) on your limited knowledge ?
Do you also second- guess the mechanic who serviced your airplane ? 😎

In the end, I think you've just rationalized your decision ( normal human behavior) - but your decision doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I will respectfully answer any questions you have - and kudos to you for sharing an unpopular opinion
This is tough stuff and I wish you all the best

We can chat about your concerns over these vaccines vs the previous vaccines in a separate post

I appreciate the thoughts and how you presented them. I think it comes down to for me ultimately is "We don't know what we don't know.", I'm not suggesting that there's something be kept from us intentionally, but my concern lies in something we didn't foresee, or know would be an issue. I was not aware that it was our of your system in such a short time period, and that certainly does move the needle to a degree for me. I want to see how this winter season unfolds in regards to the sustained durability of the protection the vaccine offers, if we don't see any egregious spikes in cases, then I think I'll re-evaluate come March/April. I'll admit even with that in mind I still do have concerns about the unforeseen in general. The vaccine while it does leave your system the positive beneficial effects still persist with your body for some currently uncertain time period, could there potentially be negative ones as well?

I'll say this. In any walk of life, if your goal is to actually move someones opinion/change their mind, then treating their current viewpoints as dumb/completely irrational or mocking them or being condescending is not going to change their minds. You and Rams are so far the only ones who really have made me stop and consider things in a different manner.

[pwny]

1 minute ago, Danger said:

The vaccine while it does leave your system the positive beneficial effects still persist with your body for some currently uncertain time period, could there potentially be negative ones as well?

Nope. The vaccine leaves your body, but what persists is what it teaches your body to do; create antibodies. It isn’t possible for what it “leaves behind” to cause effects later on. In fact in the history of vaccine testing, even vaccine trials that weren’t successful and pulled, we have never [and this cannot be emphasized enough — absolutely zero times] seen an effect pop up years down the road. Any side effects from any vaccine are found within hours, days or weeks. 3 months is basically the absolute limit possible for your body to hold onto something that was done wrong and not start showing the symptoms. Dating back to trials, we’ve now been dosing people for over a year now and there is nothing that’s shown up at any real risk level. So we can confidently say it won’t show up.

[Xenos]

5 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Here's an excerpt of that converstion

Anti-vaxxer:
What about the long term effects !!!
horrible side effects !!!
Its not even a full approval !
My science says its really gene therapy !!!
Bill Gates is putting chips in your cranium !!!
It will make you sterile !!
COVID is a HOAX !!!

Reality:   " Here's some cash"

Antivaxxer:

OK, sign me up !

If only giving cash worked as well on a grander scale.

[MrDrew]

29 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

This part is my problem. The vaccine is available and has been for a while now. Why does someone need to stay at home or wear a mask for other people when if they wanted to be vaccinated they could have?

And that question is exactly why we’re still here 18 months later. Too many people only care about themselves, and that’s what every reason/excuse to not get vaccinated, or wear a mask, comes back to. 

[pwny]

41 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

This part is my problem. The vaccine is available and has been for a while now. Why does someone need to stay at home or wear a mask for other people when if they wanted to be vaccinated they could have?

Because there’s still a lot of people who can’t get vaccinated.

Because immunocompromised individuals still have higher risk rates. 

Because increases in outbreaks increase the strain on hospitals.

Because overrun hospitals have less ability to provide care to those who are sick, resulting in higher death rates.

Because increase caseloads on hospitals make it so others can’t get the same level of care for other conditions that impact them, many times leaving them to die of something they didn’t need to die from.

Because COVID overruns hospitals to the point that visitors aren’t allowed to see their dying relatives even when those relatives don’t have COVID.

Because a large portion of the population continuing to refuse to adhere to simple rules is why we’ve had to deal with this for a year and a half.

[JonStark]

3 hours ago, Danger said:

In short, for me personally, while unlikely, the potential long term side effects outweigh the possibility of getting COVID.

Just want to say that if this is the reason for your hesitancy, you should look into it a bit more. There is next to none evidence of long term effects of the vaccine (especially the mRNA ones that are in and out of your body in about 48 hours, hence the immediate side effects like chills or fever that go away). The virus itself is what is being shown to have actual long term effects.

So if long terms effects are affecting your decision, you really should be on the other side of the fence. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

37 minutes ago, Danger said:

I appreciate the thoughts and how you presented them. I think it comes down to for me ultimately is "We don't know what we don't know.", I'm not suggesting that there's something be kept from us intentionally, but my concern lies in something we didn't foresee, or know would be an issue. 

Drug side effects are not magic. Without exposure to the drug, or exposure to something impacted from the drug, there would be no side effects.