ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TVScout said: https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital How many times do I have to say this is based on the timing of immune response and is not a measure of the strength of immune response before this sinks in? Edited October 6, 2021 by ramssuperbowl99 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Los Angeles city passes sweeping vaccine mandate. https://news.yahoo.com/los-angeles-poised-enact-strict-053316478.html Edited October 7, 2021 by Xenos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Well hopefully this will be enough to help as we head into fall and winter. https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-spend-extra-1-164646706.html Quote The White House announced Wednesday an additional $1 billion purchase of rapid, at-home coronavirus tests as some public health officials worry the U.S. could get hit with another wave of infections this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 22 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: How many times do I have to say this is based on the timing of immune response and is not a measure of the strength of immune response before this sinks in? Lol oh sweet summer child, we’re still not sure if/how masks work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Lol oh sweet summer child, we’re still not sure if/how masks work. I always appreciate the generic "we" when it applies to incompetence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Women were found generally to have higher protection against the coronavirus than men after receiving a second shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a study released Wednesday — although immunity in both sexes tended to weaken within months after full vaccination. The study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, also suggests that people ages 18 to 45 had stronger immunity than those over 65 after receiving their second shot. Finland on Thursday became the latest country to pause the use of Moderna’s vaccine for men ages 30 and under, its health authority said, citing concerns about rare cases of heart muscle inflammation known as myocarditis. The decision follows similar moves Wednesday by Denmark and Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 23 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: How many times do I have to say this is based on the timing of immune response and is not a measure of the strength of immune response before this sinks in? By "timing" are you writing about this? Quote Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, TVScout said: y "timing" are you writing about this? Quote Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose. https://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41586-021-03696-9/MediaObjects/41586_2021_3696_Fig1_HTML.png?as=webp You sure about that? The AUC of the titer in the unvaccinated subgroup went from 457 to 75 to 81, while in the vaccinated subgroup we saw 418 to 83 to 3600 at 1 month, 6 months, and 12 months, respectively. (That 6 to 12 month response in the vacccinated group is weird, and I don't see an explanation presented. My guess is there were some breakthrough infections that lead to this, but either way, we see virtually idential titers through 6 months.) The changing immune response through 1 year you mentioned is talking about continued B-cell compartment adjustments, which are entirely separate from antibody circulations that the study in Israel mentioned. They're related to what type of antibodies the immune system will produce when challenged, so it's future antibody production. To use @Shanedorf's excellent post from a few pages back: On 9/27/2021 at 4:47 PM, Shanedorf said: One tidbit of additional info regarding the "design" comment above...its more of a "selecting the right one from the catalog" vs designing one from scratch. The Clonal Selection Theory was a seminal paper in the industry. It describes how we actually have this amazing library of antibody-producing cells available to us from a young age and the immune system "selects" the right ones for that virus/bacteria and then turns on the factory to make billions of them. https://oxsci.org/clonal-selection-theory-an-immunological-breakthrough/ "Put very simply, clonal selection is when one specific cell is selected and cloned to fight infection. B cells in the bone marrow divide to create new cells, but what’s special here is that each daughter cell is different from its parent as well as from all its siblings. The result is an incredibly diverse population of B cells with different receptors that can connect with a unique antigen. The receptor is very specific and very powerful against the antigen it’s designed for, but often useless against any other antigen." That selection and production process takes about 3 weeks and that's why vaccines are your friend- they cut down the response time to days instead of weeks AND they select the very best ones. Our immune systems will always select very good antibodies, but the best ones take longer to emerge. And that's what the vaccine developers did - they tested and tested till they found the strongest, most potent, best binding COVID ***- kickers they could find. Then they made the vaccines based on that info Making a modern vaccine is sort of like doing an NFL re-draft 3 years later - you already know the winners and can choose HOF players ( antibodies) with every pick. So that's why a vaccine-induced immunity is most likley to be better than a COVID disease-induced immunity. Get yourself a HOF immunity today What we're seeing is consistent with the immune system post COVID infection having to spend a lot more time figuring out what the best antibody is. You don't have to go through all of that following vaccination, because we've done the "re-draft" already and developed the drug that way. Relevant quotes from the paper: Quote Less is known about selection and maintenance of the memory B cell compartment. SARS-CoV-2 infection produces a memory compartment that continues to evolve more than 12 months after infection with accumulation of somatic mutations, emergence of new clones and increasing affinity, all of which are consistent with long-term persistence of germinal centres. The increase in activity against SARS-CoV-2 mutants parallels the increase in affinity and is consistent with the finding that increasing the apparent affinity of anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies by dimerization or by creating bi-specific antibodies also increases resistance to RBD mutations Vaccination after SARS-CoV-2 infection increases the number of RBD-binding memory cells by more than an order of magnitude by recruiting new B cell clones into memory and expanding persistent clones. The persistent clones expand without accumulating large numbers of additional mutations, indicating that clonal expansion of human memory B cells does not require re-entry into germinal centres and occurs in the activated B cell compartment The notable evolution of neutralizing breadth after infection with SARS-CoV-2 and the robust enhancement of serologic responses and B cell memory achieved with mRNA vaccination suggests that convalescent individuals who are vaccinated should enjoy high levels of protection against emerging variants without a need to modify existing vaccines. If memory responses evolve in a similar manner in naive individuals who receive vaccines, additional appropriately timed boosting with available vaccines should lead to protective immunity against circulating variants. Translation: Following infection, your immune system has a year of guesswork to select the best antibody to fight off COVID. Following vaccination, you've already selected the best one because we forced your immune system to, so you're good. Edited October 7, 2021 by ramssuperbowl99 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Translation: Following infection, your immune system has a year of guesswork to select the best antibody to fight off COVID. Following vaccination, you've already selected the best one because we forced your immune system to, so you're good. Don't mind me, I'm just going around licking doorknobs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Don't mind me, I'm just going around licking doorknobs And I'm sitting here wondering if me not drinking for almost 4 years now qualifies as "substance use disorder" so I can get a booster next week. Should have just stayed fat so it wouldn't be an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Italy has produced a new study regarding the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines, and it sounds promising! https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/italy-says-mrna-covid-jab-effectiveness-stable-after-7-months-not-all-2021-10-06/ Nearly 70% effective against infection after 7 months against Delta. Highly effective against hospitalization @ nearly 90%. Quite the contrast from the Pfizer study which stated around 45% effectiveness after 4 months. Could it be dosing intervals? Larger sample size in this study? Italy also has more rules in place; they're not fully back to normal. Regardless- these vaccines are LEGIT! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I’m exactly 30 days from second dose, which is where antibodies peak. I did a Covid Antibody test out of curiosity. Should have results by the end of today. Should be the absolute max Pfizer can go since I’m exactly 30 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 The World Health Organization this week has settled on an official case definition of the post-coronavirus symptoms known commonly as long covid. The WHO said it had developed the medical definition alongside patients and researchers across regions and understood that it “may change as new evidence emerges and our understanding of the consequences of COVID-19 continues to evolve.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) Kind of lazy they don't tell me the exact number. This is 30 days after Pfizer Second Dose. My Mom is 11, yes only 11.... after six months of Johnson and Johnson. My brother is 950 after 7 months of Moderna Second Dose. You want a bare minimum of 400+ for at least mild protection. Edited October 8, 2021 by BayRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.f40f9543097d7c33ae4ad1ba4b0e906b.png)
Recommended Posts