Covid-19 News/Discussion

[Danger]

 

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Naturally immunity has shown to last 2-3 months at most

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

Quote

The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.

Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.

Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.

As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.

 

[Deadpulse]

37 minutes ago, Danger said:

 

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

 

Not up to date information unfortunately. You will note that the study was 50 people published on January 6th 2021. This was before vaccines were even available to compare. Here is more recent information from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html

 

Quote

IgM antibodies peak within the first few weeks following symptom onset, then fall below detectable limits 2–3 months after infection [6, 9, 10]. IgA antibodies also decrease rapidly, with some studies noting a return to undetectable levels within the first 3 months following infection [9].

 

[TVScout]

New ‘stealth’ form of omicron discovered in Australia.

The new sub-classification has 14 mutations of the original coronavirus, compared with 30 in the omicron variant, the state’s acting chief health officer, Peter Aitken, said Wednesday. Researchers have since identified cases in South Africa and Canada with the same genomic sequences as the Queensland case, with some researchers informally calling it a “stealth version” of omicron, the Guardian reported.

 

First lab results show omicron has ‘much more extensive escape’ from antibodies than previous variants.

Free:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/07/omicron-escape-antibodies/

 

 

[Mox]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Not up to date information unfortunately. You will note that the study was 50 people published on January 6th 2021. This was before vaccines were even available to compare. Here is more recent information from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html

 

 

There are a number of things wrong with this.

First, the CDC link shows that certain antibodies wane within 3 months. Not all antibodies. Specifically, IgA, and IgM. 

Second, what you posted is a review, not a study.

Third, there are multiple references cited in the same review for studies that show evidence of natural immunity lasting in the 8-13 months.

 

[flyers0909]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:18 AM, MWil23 said:

I got my booster yesterday and spent the night with chills, aches, and feeling miserable, continuing into this morning. Going to be a very long day.

Yeah this one is kicking my ***.  Got it yesterday at 11AM and woke up this morning around 1 freezing my *** off and a pounding headache.  My fever just came back, hoping the Tylenol PM kicks in quick and I can sleep off the rest of this.  

[BullsandBroncos]

The guy that does all the shipping/receiving where I work, he called saying his kids have covid. So they're making him stay home and use his PTO.

 

I would be raging if I were him. 

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

There are a number of things wrong with this.

First, the CDC link shows that certain antibodies wane within 3 months. Not all antibodies. Specifically, IgA, and IgM. 

Second, what you posted is a review, not a study.

Third, there are multiple references cited in the same review for studies that show evidence of natural immunity lasting in the 8-13 months.

 

Let's start by noting that antibodies are only a part of the immunity equation and measuring them only gives us a part of the immunity answer. 

IgA and IgM levels should wane - because those antibodies are part of the initial response, not the durable response. IgA antibodies are part of the mucosa that lines your mouth/throat/lungs etc and are responsible for providing protection before the little buggers enter your bloodstream.

Once the pathogen hits your bloodstream, the IgM's kick in because they are polyvalent (with 5 arms) to grab as many of the bad guys as they can. The IgM antibodies are more "generalist" in nature and buy time while the body makes some highly specific and potent IgG antibodies. So both IgA and IgM levels should drop over time- and that's what we're seeing.

IgG is a better, more specific binder of SARS-COV-2 and those are the antibodies that our Memory Cells will make to create lifelong immunity, once the infection is cleared. But they take longer for our body to make as it goes through a few cycles of optimization before going into production

The Review goes on to say that we have no real means of measuring lifelong immunity - ie we can't yet assess the quantity and quality of the antibodies/ Memory Cells that were made to fight COVID -  regardless of whether from infection or vaccination. However, we've had 70+ years of success vaccinating and eradicating diseases - based on our understanding of how the immune system works. So even though we can't always measure them, we can see the results

The main message here is this: measuring antibodies is not measuring immunity - and antibody levels dropping is exactly what you'd expect to see after the infection is cleared. Some small amount of anti-COVID IgG should always circulating in the bloodstream as sentinels, but there's no need to make detectable levels- if there isn't a threat.
Our bodies are very busy fighting off all kinds of stuff every day - and resources are deployed accordingly.

The other item they cover in the Exec Summary is that they believe antibodies are only responsible for about 68 % of the overall protection; with various sub-classes of T-Cells, B-Cells, NK cells and others contributing to the intricate cascade of events needed to generate lifelong immunity.

If I had to rank them in terms of best chances for lifelong, potent immunity, I guess this:

The MWil 23 protocol ( not recommended)
(2) doses vaccine + 1 booster
(2) doses vaccine
(1) severe, nasty infection requiring hospitalization + (1) vaccine
(1) mild/moderate infection + (1) vaccine
(1) severe infection
(1) dose of vaccine
(1) mild infection

The reason the vaccines likley come out on top is because the scientists did a lot of the optimization in the lab and you're assured of getting a consistent, highly potent and efficacious dose every time. And ironically enough - much of the pathology around the COVID disease comes from an over-reaction of your natural immune system. Seems like we're better off getting vaccinated than having severe disease - and since there's no way for an individual to predict whether their case will be severe vs mild... getting vaccinated is the prudent way to go.

[squire12]

1 hour ago, Shanedorf said:

Our bodies are very busy fighting off all kinds of stuff every day - and resources are deployed accordingly.

checks poster and moderator lists.....

[KManX89]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:40 PM, DontTazeMeBro said:

So am I(maybe, who tf knows anymore). But I still have a directory of doctors who prescribe Ivermectin bookmarked. It’s all that anecdotal evidence you guys hate but it certainly seems like the people who consulted with Rogan are getting over it much quicker than those relying on the vaccines alone.

What anecdotal evidence? The mountains of hospitalizations and the f'ing MAKER of the drug saying it's not for treating Covid (!) and there's no data to support this clearly show otherwise.

Oh, and speaking of unvaccinated:

Good. About time somebody said "you refuse to get the jab, you reap what you sow" instead of wasting resources. And (perhaps) more importantly, people with chronic conditions unrelated to Covid can actually get a bed.

I hope it passes.

Edited December 9, 2021 by KManX89

[TVScout]

The FDA issued an emergency-use authorization Wednesday for AstraZeneca’s antibody drug, Evusheld. It consists of laboratory-brewed monoclonal antibodies and is an alternative coronavirus prevention treatment for people with compromised immune systems.

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[Chiefer]

With the omicron variant, should i wait for the booster vaccine? 

[MWil23]

9 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

With the omicron variant, should i wait for the booster vaccine? 

IMO if you are outside of 6-10 months out from your last dose and haven't been positive since, go for it. I just got mine (2nd dose was March), but I waited the extra 2 months since I likely had it/had it this past summer.

[Deadpulse]

9 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

IMO if you are outside of 6-10 months out from your last dose and haven't been positive since, go for it. I just got mine (2nd dose was March), but I waited the extra 2 months since I likely had it/had it this past summer.

I would cosign this. 

I am waiting only because I def had it early october 

[Xenos]

46 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I would cosign this. 

I am waiting only because I def had it early october 

No harm in getting the booster even if you had the infection recently. Additional protection is always nice especially for a variant that could better evade antibodies.

[Xenos]

1 hour ago, Chiefer said:

With the omicron variant, should i wait for the booster vaccine? 

I wouldn’t wait unless you just got your 2nd shot.