Raiders sign Karl Joseph

[Rich7sena]

11 minutes ago, SodakRaiders said:

https://twitter.com/RaynMaker82/status/1380655537176465409?s=20

Interesting. I remember he was cast as a strong safety when he first was drafted and struggled immensely in man coverage and when isolated against tight ends. His worst trait is man coverage. He's stiff, but he can run. When he rotated to single high in KNJ I thought he looked more comfortable in coverage. He's also good at storming down and making plays against the run.

He can play in the box as long as he isn't stuck in man coverage (i.e. hook zone, flat zone). Even then, there are better players on the roster who can fill that role.

Earl Thomas ruined what it means for most single high free safeties in a cover 3. They're responsible for the deep 3rd, not the entire field. A single high safety needs to stay deeper than the deepest in his third of the field and not miss tackles. Everything else is extra. Joseph's extra is in run support. He can to the first two things fine.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Rich7sena

[SodakRaiders]

9 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Interesting. I remember he was cast as a strong safety when he first was drafted and struggled immensely in man coverage and when isolated against tight ends. His worst trait is man coverage. He's stiff, but he can run. When he rotated to single high in KNJ I thought he looked more comfortable in coverage. He's also good at storming down and making plays against the run.

He can play in the box as long as he isn't stuck in man coverage (i.e. hook zone, flat zone). Even then, there are better players on the roster who can fill that role.

Earl Thomas ruined what it means for most single high free safeties in a cover 3. They're responsible for the deep 3rd, not the entire field. A single high safety needs to stay deeper than the deepest in his third of the field and not miss tackles. Everything else is extra. Joseph's extra is in run support. He can to the first two things fine.

I think KJ's best year was his last in Oakland.  He wasn't great but he was a solid starter.  He, if anything was a solid tackler and a good teammate.  Happy to have him back.  It may not be the answer everyone is looking for but I would say he will be a better FS than anyone we currently have on the roster.  And might only hold the spot until a rookie is ready.  But he is an easy guy to cheer for.  

[ragingraider]

I really like this signing. He gives us depth and experience with youth. I would have resigned him before he left last time. I think he is ready to elevate to a top ten FS.

[Rich7sena]

3 minutes ago, SodakRaiders said:

I think KJ's best year was his last in Oakland.  He wasn't great but he was a solid starter.  He, if anything was a solid tackler and a good teammate.  Happy to have him back.  It may not be the answer everyone is looking for but I would say he will be a better FS than anyone we currently have on the roster.  And might only hold the spot until a rookie is ready.  But he is an easy guy to cheer for.  

I think it's close between him and Heath. I thought Heath had a real solid year last year. He's probably rangier than Joseph. Either way, it sets up nice to draft my guy Gillespie in the third round.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Rich7sena

[SodakRaiders]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

I think it's close between him and Heath. I thought Heath had a real solid year last year. He's probably rangier than Joseph. Either way, it sets up nice to draft my guy Gillespie in the third round.

It should be a fun year.  I have hope that the entire defense is going to play faster.  And we might have a guy or two on the roster who really show out under the new DC.

[101Raider]

Not super excited to have him and Abrams back there to be honest, though I think they’ll be capable.  
 

The big take away is that I hope this allows us to take the BEST player available at 17 instead of pigeonholing us into a FS (though I actually like Moehrig).

 

 Plenty of RTs in the 2nd.

[drfrey13]

I do not think he is exactly what we need but I am happy to see him come back.  This is just my personal opinion.  Joseph is good at man coverage if you do not have him cover TEs that have 8+ inches on him.  From what I remember he tends to get lost in zone coverage.  He also excels in the box against the run.  He has the physical ability to play single high but I do not think he has the instincts.  I also think, depending on the opponent, you could see Joseph in the slot.  Hopefully Bradley can find was to use his strengths and hide his deviancies.  For anyone comparing KNJ to Bradley you have to remember that KNJ is the one who said he does not know Xs and Os.  I believe Bradley will have a lot more success than KNJ and KNJ has been carried by JDR and Carroll.  KNJ is not a bad coach but is better at being a motivational presence that players want to fight for.  I would not be surprised if KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner understand Carroll's defense better than KNJ.

[drfrey13]

13 minutes ago, 101Raider said:

Not super excited to have him and Abrams back there to be honest, though I think they’ll be capable.  
 

The big take away is that I hope this allows us to take the BEST player available at 17 instead of pigeonholing us into a FS (though I actually like Moehrig).

 

 Plenty of RTs in the 2nd.

You might see Joseph and Abram fighting for the SS spot.  I am not going to try and figure out what they are thinking because 2/3s of this off-season has not made sense to me.

[reddevil]

4 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I'm also wondering if Bradley is looking to play 3 safeties often. When Derwin James was healthy, Bradley would play Jenkins, James, and Adrian Phillips at the same time quite often. James would always be in the box and Jenkins would almost always be high. I could could see a trio of Heath, Joseph, and Abram where Heath is high and Joseph and Abram in the box. And my box I mean close to the line of scrimmage (not necessarily within the tackle box).

I'm watching late season Browns games and Joseph is playing almost exclusively in the box.

Or we draft JOK to take one of the spots......(at least here’s me hoping!)

[reddevil]

I think people are overthinking this single high stuff. For those like me, who actually thought Joseph was a good player when he was with us and feel that it was a mistake to let him go - he is an upgrade on what we had last year. An upgrade (quality wise - not going into detail over exact positions)  over Harris, Heath and Abram. Plainly, if he plays as well as he did when he was here last, he will be our best safety.

Now if you didn’t like him when he was here - that’s your opinion. But I feel, given that it is unlikely that he cost an awful lot that he improves an area of the team, offers depth and security for what we do in the draft and if other players (Abram) play poorly

[Darbsk]

37 minutes ago, reddevil said:

I think people are overthinking this single high stuff. For those like me, who actually thought Joseph was a good player when he was with us and feel that it was a mistake to let him go - he is an upgrade on what we had last year. An upgrade (quality wise - not going into detail over exact positions)  over Harris, Heath and Abram. Plainly, if he plays as well as he did when he was here last, he will be our best safety.

Now if you didn’t like him when he was here - that’s your opinion. But I feel, given that it is unlikely that he cost an awful lot that he improves an area of the team, offers depth and security for what we do in the draft and if other players (Abram) play poorly

This exactly 😀

Great post. 

[Darbsk]

7 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Then why didn't he play well at FS in a similar scheme last season on a defense with a better pass rush and better CB's? 

If you want I"ll try and go back to watch the Browns defense and see where/why he struggled

The Browns for some reason were on TV over this side of the pond quite a lot last season and I for one think Joseph played pretty well when I watched them. I even commented on it last season in fact! Be very interested in what you see @MrOaktown_56

Edited April 10, 2021 by Darbsk

[Darbsk]

5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

You're probably the only one on earth that has seen it. 

No plenty of people have seen it, played FS well in college and primarily why he was a first round pick (or high pick if you think he was over drafted as most do). 

Now, that's not to say he'll be excellent but I think most who oppose your position are only saying he'll be competent rather than 'Earl Thomas'.

[ronjon1990]

Probably pne of our better signings. I thought he was playing better towards the end of his 1st stint here. 

No telling how it effects us in the draft though. He's got a ceiling, so taking another safety is just a matter of when. Be interesting to see how it's addressed. 

I'm cool with it, but would've preferred Boston if we're being honest. I think his impact potential was a bit better. That being said, Joseph always struck me as a team guy, so he comes with less potential baggage than some alternatives. 

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

No plenty of people have seen it, played FS well in college and primarily why he was a first round pick (or high pick if you think he was over drafted as most do). 

Now, that's not to say he'll be excellent but I think most who oppose your position are only saying he'll be competent rather than 'Earl Thomas'.

He played FS in the same scheme last season and was benched, did you guys see that as well? What's a better indicator of player ability? What they did last season in the same role or what they did in college 6 years ago?

In that case we should sign Tim Tebow, he was a really good quarterback in college, should translate well. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by NYRaider