Raiders sign Karl Joseph

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I don't think "favorite" necessarily means Top Ranked though. Joseph was probably in my Top 5 favorite players in that draft, from a fan perspective due to how fun he was to watch, but still had a 2nd Round Grade on him. 

Same here.  I was happy we drafted him because he was my favorite player but no where near the best player.  On a different subject how did we not hit on one of the D-line prospects that year.  How do we draft Ward 3 rounds to early and Joseph 1 round to early and Calhoun when we could have had Clark, Jones, Hargrave, Reed, and Ngakoue.  Imagine a line with Jones, Hargrave, and Ngakoue.  This is definitely hindsight but I think the majority of us here were not happy with Joseph and Ward in the first 2 rounds.  Looks like you had a 50/50 chance of getting a stud D-linemen that year and we whiffed on the 2 we got.  Judon was taken in the 5th that year.

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Kwiatkoski and Morrow have both made impact plays as blitzers. Just not in the same year (Kwit was more in chicago when he was asked to do it more, Morrow more last year). Littleton is an excellent coverage backer over his career.

We don't have a missile or absolute physical specimen. I wouldn't mind either. I just think there are "faster" ways to elevate the defense if we can find a playmaker at FS/DT.

This is the problem. There isn't a playmaker at either FS/DT in this class imo. One may develop. But at 17, you need a playmaker it's going to be LB (Parsons, JOK) most likely.

My dream scenario: Parsons/JOK at 17. Holland/Onwuzurike at 48. RT in round (Brown)

[MrOaktown_56]

41 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This is the problem. There isn't a playmaker at either FS/DT in this class imo. One may develop. But at 17, you need a playmaker it's going to be LB (Parsons, JOK) most likely.

My dream scenario: Parsons/JOK at 17. Holland/Onwuzurike at 48. RT in round (Brown)

I think that would be fine. If they have a good way to use Parsons/JOK, I’d be fine with it. JOK is a lot safer than Parsons IMO. And a better fit for Bradley’s defense.

[drfrey13]

38 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This is the problem. There isn't a playmaker at either FS/DT in this class imo. One may develop. But at 17, you need a playmaker it's going to be LB (Parsons, JOK) most likely.

My dream scenario: Parsons/JOK at 17. Holland/Onwuzurike at 48. RT in round (Brown)

I think Barmore will be a good player at 17 but might not provide the impact we need right away.  Barmore has issues against the run but what we need most is pass rush up the middle.  I think we will have to many DTs but he will give two things I think the rest will not.  From what I have seen he has the awareness to reach out and strip the QB even when he does not make the sack and when we know the other team needs to pass, coughDolphinscoughcough, he is the type to close out the game.  We need those guys that the coach can say go get me the ball.

[Jeremy408]

For anybody who cares

 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think that would be fine. If they have a good way to use Parsons/JOK, I’d be fine with it. JOK is a lot safer than Parsons IMO. And a better fit for Bradley’s defense.

I agree. I like JOK's potential under Bradley. He knows how to use these type players.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I think Barmore will be a good player at 17 but might not provide the impact we need right away.  Barmore has issues against the run but what we need most is pass rush up the middle.  I think we will have to many DTs but he will give two things I think the rest will not.  From what I have seen he has the awareness to reach out and strip the QB even when he does not make the sack and when we know the other team needs to pass, coughDolphinscoughcough, he is the type to close out the game.  We need those guys that the coach can say go get me the ball.

I'm not a fan of Barmore. Been vocal all offseason. I still keep looking for something to wow me and I don't see it. 

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I'm not a fan of Barmore. Been vocal all offseason. I still keep looking for something to wow me and I don't see it. 

What if he’s at 48?

I have to admit this is the worst DT class I’ve ever seen. 

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I agree. I like JOK's potential under Bradley. He knows how to use these type players.

I'd take Parsons over JOK because of the pass rush potential. 

[Roninho]

10 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is the problem. There isn't a playmaker at either FS/DT in this class imo. One may develop. But at 17, you need a playmaker it's going to be LB (Parsons, JOK) most likely.

My dream scenario: Parsons/JOK at 17. Holland/Onwuzurike at 48. RT in round (Brown)

I cant say who is going to be a playmaker (didnt watch any ncaa this year), but i for sure am in favor of landing playmakers, as in players that will be very good at their position, regardless of position.

Imo only QB is a no go, there isnt a position we cant use a very good player (even TE, think of having 2 Wallers and what that would do to our offense).

I certainly understand that drafting certain positions would get a negative reaction because it isnt a position of need, but i'm tired of drafting guys at positions of need who turn out to be very average.

If you just look at how much capital we spent on dbs in the past 8 or so years because it was a need and we still suck. Pffff

[oakdb36]

1 hour ago, Roninho said:

If you just look at how much capital we spent on dbs in the past 8 or so years because it was a need and we still suck. Pffff

That's only because we drafted the wrong players. For example, we could have drafted Tre'Davious White (went 27) instead of Conley (at 24).

[big_palooka]

11 hours ago, BayRaider said:

What if he’s at 48?

I have to admit this is the worst DT class I’ve ever seen. 

Only DT I like is Levi O. I wouldn't touch Barmore unless he fell to round 3 personally. Not a fan of him at all.

[Darbsk]

11 hours ago, BayRaider said:

What if he’s at 48?

I have to admit this is the worst DT class I’ve ever seen. 

It's a strange one to me as there are a number of guys I really like, such as Nixon, Barmore and Levi O relatively early and Togiai, Tufele and a few others a little later but I don't see any prospect I'd be comfortable taking at 17, maybe with a decent trade down into the high 20s but even then they don't scream out as a must have.

Ultimately I think in 2 or 3 years there will be a few really good DTs come out of this class but draft value wise it's simply not there at the top of the class......very unusual.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Only DT I like is Levi O. I wouldn't touch Barmore unless he fell to round 3 personally. Not a fan of him at all.

Who better Surtain or Nixon? Lol

[big_palooka]

39 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Who better Surtain or Nixon? Lol

Surtain obviously. Apparently you missed the entire point of that conversation. It wasn't that I think Nixon is better than Sutrain. It's that it wasn't as absurd as you want to make it out for someone suggesting it. 

It's all projections. If someone would have ranked Fred Warner over Mike McGlinchey 2 years ago, everyone would have scoffed. Now look where they are at?

Point was... easy to scoff at these suggestions, but high rated picks bust all the time. And unheralded  picks shine from time to time.