Brady vs Jordan for 2nd greatest North American Athlete of all-time

[CP3MVP]

6 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

I'm not interested in talking about MVPs. But they are a useful indicator. 

Bottom line is, Brady was simply not the best QB in the league for 17 out of his 20 total career seasons. From a production standpoint, he's certainly complied a lot of stats over the years, but was never consistently dominant. He was elite for maybe 3 years. 

Jordan, meanwhile, put up some of the most insanely dominant seasons from 1986-1993. Brady could never dream of putting together such a peak. 

You brought up mvps and all pro teams first. Now since it was used against you suddenly you’re not interested. Jordan wasn’t the best player from 86-93 so I have no idea this “insanely dominant peak” when he wasn’t even considered the best player during half of that time
 

So Brady was only an elite QB for 3 years? Lol are you trolling. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by CP3MVP

[CP3MVP]

59 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Jordan wasn’t the undisputed best player in the league until Bird got injured and Magic got AIDS. And then even when he was in the middle of his title run he wasn’t the clear best player every year. 
 

Also considering Jordan won all his titles after he waited for Pippen to join, got an 11x champion coach and later got one of the best defensive players ever.... kinda suspect to talk about Brady having a good team. Especially when Brady won with entirely different casts across his career and two different coaches

Yes Jordan was incredible in the 90’s in his sport, but his myth is much bigger than the reality at this. 
 

Brady has a much clearer claim to being the best QB of all time than Jordan the best basketball player. Wilt was a far better athlete, Kareem was more successful by nearly every accolade, Lebron is ballpark. Brady’s biggest competitions in this department are Manning and Montana who both have huge gaps in certain areas when comparing careers 

Exactly. The debate during the 80’s was magic versus bird.

 

 

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, childofpudding said:

Lol. Well this was a waste of time.

Ok show me which years was Brady clearly and obviously the best player in the NFL. 

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, childofpudding said:

No, those stats really aren't comparable between basketball players in different positions. Your advanced metrics line is just gibberish.

Ok so there's no way you can ever compare Andre Drummond with Steph Curry, according to your logic. I mean, they play different positions, so we just don't know how valuable each one is. It's a total mystery. 

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, lancerman said:

Jordan wasn’t the undisputed best player in the league until Bird got injured and Magic got AIDS. And then even when he was in the middle of his title run he wasn’t the clear best player every year. 

Larry Bird in 1986:

“I would never have called him the greatest player I’d ever seen if I didn’t mean it,” Bird told The Boston Globe. “It’s just God disguised as Michael Jordan.”

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, lancerman said:

Brady has a much clearer claim to being the best QB of all time than Jordan the best basketball player. Wilt was a far better athlete, Kareem was more successful by nearly every accolade, Lebron is ballpark. Brady’s biggest competitions in this department are Manning and Montana who both have huge gaps in certain areas when comparing careers 

Funny how you say Brady is the QB of all time, you can't even claim he is the best NFL player of all time. 

Brady has the greatest career of any QB, but in terms of skill and ability, he is on par with other great QB's. He certainly never had a dominant peak like Marino or Manning where year-after-year he was obviously the best. Nothing like what Jordan accomplished.  

[AngusMcFife]

4 hours ago, lancerman said:

Also considering Jordan won all his titles after he waited for Pippen to join, got an 11x champion coach and later got one of the best defensive players ever.... kinda suspect to talk about Brady having a good team. Especially when Brady won with entirely different casts across his career and two different coaches

Coaching has a negligible impact on NBA outcomes, every novice knows that. Football coaches have way more impact.

Pippen didn't really accomplish much without Jordan so I don't know why you think he's so incredible. Obviously you can't win an NBA title with scrubs as supporting cast. And Rodman was well past his prime when he joined the Bulls.

Meanwhile, Brady was throwing to the 2nd greatest WR ever in Moss and the greatest TE in NFL history from 2007 to the present. And played behind incredibly coached offensive lines by Scarrnecchia. 

[lancerman]

9 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Coaching has a negligible impact on NBA outcomes, every novice knows that. Football coaches have way more impact.

Pippen didn't really accomplish much without Jordan so I don't know why you think he's so incredible. Obviously you can't win an NBA title with scrubs as supporting cast. And Rodman was well past his prime when he joined the Bulls.

Meanwhile, Brady was throwing to the 2nd greatest WR ever in Moss and the greatest TE in NFL history from 2007 to the present. And played behind incredibly coached offensive lines by Scarrnecchia. 

Reading all your other posts tells me you don’t know much of anything about basketball. 
 

Coaching is negligible? There’s been 72 NBA finals. 2 coaches (Auerbach and Jackson) account for 21 of them. So two coaches own nearly 30% of all finals and one of them happened to be Jordan’s coach who won 5 without him. Add Riley and Pop and you are up 31 for 43% of all NBA titles belong to 4 coaches. That’s also ignoring that Auerbach and Riley were heavy influences as top executives leading other championship teams while they stepped away from coaching (Auerbach won 7 as the team President and Riley 3 as President of the Heat) so you are back to the same 4 guys being involved in over the half the championships in league history. But it’s negligible...

Meanwhile in football Belichick has a losing record without Brady, Reid didn’t win a thing until Mahomes got there, Seifert was able to win with Walsh’s team. 
 

Brady had Moss for 2 years and change. Never won title with him. Brady only won 3 titles with Gronk and he (14, 18, and 20). 14 was the only one he was in his prime for. He was washed in 18 and retired, then in 20 he came back and was healthier but still nowhere near his peak. So like one out of 7 titles he had a prime healthy Gronk? And then Jordan had Pippen for all his titles and Pippen led the Bulls to a winning record without him. 

[childofpudding]

59 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Ok show me which years was Brady clearly and obviously the best player in the NFL. 

That's not what elite means.

 

56 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Ok so there's no way you can ever compare Andre Drummond with Steph Curry, according to your logic. I mean, they play different positions, so we just don't know how valuable each one is. It's a total mystery. 

I didn't say that. I was responding to your claim that you can compare assists, rebounds and shooting percentage among different positions in the NBA. That's simply not true. To use the players that you mentioned, it would mean that Drummond is a better basketball player than Curry because he has more career rebounds per game and a better career shooting percentage.

Edited May 10, 2021 by childofpudding

[childofpudding]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Larry Bird in 1986:

“I would never have called him the greatest player I’d ever seen if I didn’t mean it,” Bird told The Boston Globe. “It’s just God disguised as Michael Jordan.”

OK, so an opposing player said that Jordan was the greatest. Let's continue the logic that you used in this post: https://www.nfl.com/news/even-aaron-rodgers-admits-tom-brady-is-the-goat-0ap3000000787722

Aaron Rodgers: "So from a fan's perspective, what a great game to watch and to see Tom in his greatness on display one more time. I mean, he didn't need to win that to prove that he's the G.O.A.T., but just another part of his legacy there."

Oh, just Rodgers isn't enough for you? OK, here you go:

Good job proving that Brady is the GOAT.

Edited May 10, 2021 by childofpudding

[Jameson_Neat]

Brady is a lot like Howe, IMO. #9 was probably more talented physically but nobody is touching the ridiculous longevity each had at such a high level.

But Brady also doesn't have the ridiculous peak of a guy like Gretzky, who had team success while being undoubtedly the best player in the game. 

 

[RavensfanRD]

6 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Actually, that can work the other way. You only get one chance to beat Brady (or his team. I thought that football was a team sport, but I guess I was wrong), so it was easier for him to win. Six teams had four tries at beating Jordan, and eleven teams had four tries at beating Bill Russell, and they still couldn't. So, if you look at it that way, they are greater than Brady.

Nah, can't go for it. By that same token, Jordan could be down 3-1 in the playoffs and make a come back. There is no tomorrow in the NFL. Win or go home. Period.

[Hunter2_1]

3 hours ago, childofpudding said:

OK, so an opposing player said that Jordan was the greatest. Let's continue the logic that you used in this post: https://www.nfl.com/news/even-aaron-rodgers-admits-tom-brady-is-the-goat-0ap3000000787722

Aaron Rodgers: "So from a fan's perspective, what a great game to watch and to see Tom in his greatness on display one more time. I mean, he didn't need to win that to prove that he's the G.O.A.T., but just another part of his legacy there."

Oh, just Rodgers isn't enough for you? OK, here you go:

Good job proving that Brady is the GOAT.

[7DnBrnc53]

3 hours ago, childofpudding said:

OK, so an opposing player said that Jordan was the greatest. Let's continue the logic that you used in this post: https://www.nfl.com/news/even-aaron-rodgers-admits-tom-brady-is-the-goat-0ap3000000787722

Aaron Rodgers: "So from a fan's perspective, what a great game to watch and to see Tom in his greatness on display one more time. I mean, he didn't need to win that to prove that he's the G.O.A.T., but just another part of his legacy there."

Oh, just Rodgers isn't enough for you? OK, here you go:

Good job proving that Brady is the GOAT.

I would believe Bird more than I would believe these NFL players. Bird is more genuine. Some of those NFL guys are in the media, and they will say what the league wants them to say (that Brady is the GOAT).

Jordan almost took a game from the greatest team in NBA history (with no help). Brady's teams went to 10 Super Bowls, but he wasn't always the main reason. He benefits a lot from fan ignorance. There is this thing that takes hold in fandom that automatically says that a QB is great because he has multiple championship rings. That's what Brady benefits from. The facts are not important because the people that push this view really have no facts. Rings are a team accomplishment.

[childofpudding]

1 minute ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I would believe Bird more than I would believe these NFL players. Bird is more genuine. Some of those NFL guys are in the media, and they will say what the league wants them to say (that Brady is the GOAT).

Jordan almost took a game from the greatest team in NBA history (with no help). Brady's teams went to 10 Super Bowls, but he wasn't always the main reason. He benefits a lot from fan ignorance. There is this thing that takes hold in fandom that automatically says that a QB is great because he has multiple championship rings. That's what Brady benefits from. The facts are not important because the people that push this view really have no facts. Rings are a team accomplishment.

Yeah you just posted a video earlier in this thread about how a QB that has gone to 10 SBs, won 7 of them, and will retire with the most passing yards and TDs is overrated. But please do preach to the rest of us about fan ignorance. It's funny.