EDGE rushers

[Chiefer]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:47 AM, CWood21 said:

I want to like Sam Williams, but it's hard for me to see anything but a raw piece of clay there.  He's got absolutely NO idea of how to rush the passer.   If you trust your coaching staff, grabbing him on Day 2 could pay big dividends.

He reminds me of Frank Clark a lot, both good and bad. Very physical, and a hand fighter, but no real plan to get to the QB
 

[kingseanjohn]

19 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

He reminds me of Frank Clark a lot, both good and bad. Very physical, and a hand fighter, but no real plan to get to the QB

Outside of the top few guys who will start day one, some of the rest will be rotational depth that you hope develop into a starter, then there's career depth guys. I see Williams as someone that can be depth and then become a three down starter. He should be rotational early on but get more playing time as the year goes on. By year two or three he should be starting imo.

[Chiefer]

19 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

Outside of the top few guys who will start day one, some of the rest will be rotational depth that you hope develop into a starter, then there's career depth guys. I see Williams as someone that can be depth and then become a three down starter. He should be rotational early on but get more playing time as the year goes on. By year two or three he should be starting imo.

I think hell actually garner some starting minutes earlier in his first year than youd think because hes a decent enough run defender due to his physicality and strength.

They regularly played him as a DE in 34 type sets, i think because he holds the POA very well.

[kingseanjohn]

35 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

I think hell actually garner some starting minutes earlier in his first year than youd think because hes a decent enough run defender due to his physicality and strength.

They regularly played him as a DE in 34 type sets, i think because he holds the POA very well.

I agree on the starting minutes. It’s just a matter of what team he goes to and their current depth chart. I know in KC, we tend to favor vets. So he’d wait a little time just for that imo. 

[THE DUKE]

I'm not usually a "take the ball of athletic clay" guy, but I am in on Sam Williams.  I think early on he is primarily a pass rush specialist but by year 3 he's an every down edge.  I wouldn't hate it if the Bengals took him at 31, although there is zero smoke for that.

[Daniel]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:52 AM, THE DUKE said:

I'm not usually a "take the ball of athletic clay" guy, but I am in on Sam Williams.  I think early on he is primarily a pass rush specialist but by year 3 he's an every down edge.  I wouldn't hate it if the Bengals took him at 31, although there is zero smoke for that.

I'm with you on that Williams hype train.  He had very good tape against Evan Neal for a guy who isn't mocked in the first.

[CWood21]

On 4/20/2022 at 11:27 AM, Daniel said:

I'm with you on that Williams hype train.  He had very good tape against Evan Neal for a guy who isn't mocked in the first.

He did?  He had a couple of good reps, but he looked exactly like he did the rest of his tapes.  He's got absolutely no pass rush plan.  The hand usage is virtually non-existent, and he looks more like he's trying to run through an OL's body then any idea of how to rush the passer.  He's getting by completely on his physical tools.  That needs a TON of refinement before he's serviceable in the NFL.

[brownie man]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:47 AM, CWood21 said:

I want to like Sam Williams, but it's hard for me to see anything but a raw piece of clay there.  He's got absolutely NO idea of how to rush the passer.   If you trust your coaching staff, grabbing him on Day 2 could pay big dividends.

Man I just started watching him today!!!

he’s going to be a pro bowler. If he gets the coaching and some time to develop. You don’t want him try playing the run too much yet, but go watch him man he’s got the bend. That bend alone at that size with that speed will get you sacks. And I’ve seen a swim move from him. 
 

For my Browns he’s my new target in the second round. Allow him to develop behind Myles and Clowney once he gets resigned. He’s got first round talent. I actually love his tape he’s not a finished product yet he’s actually just starting. But I’m telling you @CWood21 he’s going to get sacks in the league just off that ability to bend. He’s gonna get 5-6 sacks year one just off that. 

[Chiefer]

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

He did?  He had a couple of good reps, but he looked exactly like he did the rest of his tapes.  He's got absolutely no pass rush plan.  The hand usage is virtually non-existent, and he looks more like he's trying to run through an OL's body then any idea of how to rush the passer.  He's getting by completely on his physical tools.  That needs a TON of refinement before he's serviceable in the NFL.

Well it looked obvious to me that his main concern was being physical, defending the run and holding the POA against Evan Neal. That he executed really well, even when they were getting blown out into the 4th.Bama despite all the weapons is still a runfirst offense, so i think my theory holds mustard.

Especially watching against a team like Mississipi State, where you see him able to pin his ears back and attack. His first step is fast, and his speed to power put Charles Cross on skates once or twice. He was working there RT all night, but Corral is slippery so Williams only got a couple sacks.

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Chiefer

[jrry32]

4 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Well it looked obvious to me that his main concern was being physical, defending the run and holding the POA against Evan Neal. That he executed really well, even when they were getting blown out into the 4th.Bama despite all the weapons is still a runfirst offense, so i think my theory holds mustard.

Especially watching against a team like Mississipi State, where you see him able to pin his ears back and attack. His first step is fast, and his speed to power put Charles Cross on skates once or twice. He was working there RT all night, but Corral is slippery so Williams only got a couple sacks.

 

Run-first offense? Bama's starting QB threw for almost 5000 yards and 47 TDs.

[Chiefer]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Run-first offense? Bama's starting QB threw for almost 5000 yards and 47 TDs.

And ultimately theyre backbone is using those big boys and running people downhill. Was clear as day against Cinci, and I reckon Lane Kiffin knows it better than anybody else. You bully the other side into submission and than its bombs over Baghdad.

My main point is we as scouts dont exactly know what a player is being asked to do. Against other teams I saw a clear pass rush plan, so maybe the reason he looked different against Bama was because he was asked to do different things? 

 

[MSURacerDT55]

17 hours ago, CWood21 said:

He did?  He had a couple of good reps, but he looked exactly like he did the rest of his tapes.  He's got absolutely no pass rush plan.  The hand usage is virtually non-existent, and he looks more like he's trying to run through an OL's body then any idea of how to rush the passer.  He's getting by completely on his physical tools.  That needs a TON of refinement before he's serviceable in the NFL.

I think you might be selling him short, When I watched his tapes he does win a lot off of effort but he wins with initial moves as well, not a lot but he does.

As far as my take on him as a prospect, with his size/athleticism/effort ratio, I think he has loads of upside (especially once he gets to his new team and gets his fundamentals together. I think he is at least a low 1st round, high second guy with the potential to be an annual 10+ sack a year guy.

[Superduperman]

Am I the only one who thinks Jacksonville would be massive idiots to take Walker #1, and will laugh out loud at them if they do?

34 tackles and 9.5 sacks in 3 years? With that level of talent all around him? I know the measurements are excellent, but this isn't the #1 pick if you ask me. I'm still extremely skeptical the Jags will do it.

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

Am I the only one who thinks Jacksonville would be massive idiots to take Walker #1, and will laugh out loud at them if they do?

No.

But it's a swing for a player who might have first overall talent.  I get the logic behind it, if it happens.

Hutch is a lot safer though, and if I had to be money, I'd bet on him.

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I think you might be selling him short, When I watched his tapes he does win a lot off of effort but he wins with initial moves as well, not a lot but he does.

As far as my take on him as a prospect, with his size/athleticism/effort ratio, I think he has loads of upside (especially once he gets to his new team and gets his fundamentals together. I think he is at least a low 1st round, high second guy with the potential to be an annual 10+ sack a year guy.

I really don't think so.  I mean, what would you say his go-to pass rush move is?  He's athletic as hell, but completely unrefined as a pass rusher.  Someone's going to take him higher then he probably should, but you're going to need to develop him.  I'm just saying so far he's gotten by purely on athleticism.  He'll need to be refined.