jebrick Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: All I’m hearing here is that LVN needs to be the 17th pick in the first round lol and I would disagree. How he fits with the Steelers is as a 5 tech. His explosive numbers are crap so you have to hope he can get by on his strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 4 hours ago, jebrick said: and I would disagree. How he fits with the Steelers is as a 5 tech. His explosive numbers are crap so you have to hope he can get by on his strength. Wut…have you watched Van Ness? His best attribute is his explosiveness off the line combined with brute power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Power, explosiveness, length. but he doesn’t have a pass rush repertoire yet. You’re drafting the tools. Which is fine, but the teens is too early, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said: Power, explosiveness, length. but he doesn’t have a pass rush repertoire yet. You’re drafting the tools. Which is fine, but the teens is too early, in my opinion. He has a better pass rush plan than Tyree Wilson does IMO. I think LVN goes top 10. He’s got an absurd upside. Yeah he’s light on reps, but I couldn’t call him raw. He’s more than just a big lump of clay to be molded. He was the best player on the best defense in CFB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 20 hours ago, Ragnarok said: LVN didn't come close to having a season on par with Stingley, Slater, and Quinnen. Bad comparisons. I think Travon and Gary are good examples of super athletic guys who didn't put up the stats you'd expect in college. Gary has panned out, Travon remains to be seen. Either way name me a player drafted in the 1st round who was a backup in college? Regardless of the reasons, the dude was a backup and saw less time because of it be it at DE or DT. Evans/Shannon/Lee/Waggoner or Craig started for them. I cannot recall a player who could be drafted that high as a backup, but the dude can play and is legit athletically and in terms of his skill set. He is well worth a high selection and again when has that happened before to a player as a backup only really in college? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 12 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: Wut…have you watched Van Ness? His best attribute is his explosiveness off the line combined with brute power. His combine numbers for explosiveness are fairly bland. VJ 31 BJ: 9'10 Compared to say Adetomiwa Adebawore VJ 37.5 BJ 10'5 Those are TJ Watt numbers Isaiah Foskey VJ 34 BJ 10'5 Byron Young VJ 38 BJ 11 Keion White VJ 34 BJ 9'9 Matt Judon had better numbers at the same weight. I see a comparison to Trey Hendrickson ( Saints 2017 3rd round) and Hendrickson has better numbers. Selling me on explosiveness when the test do not show is not very good in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, jebrick said: His combine numbers for explosiveness are fairly bland. VJ 31 BJ: 9'10 Compared to say Adetomiwa Adebawore VJ 37.5 BJ 10'5 Those are TJ Watt numbers Isaiah Foskey VJ 34 BJ 10'5 Byron Young VJ 38 BJ 11 Keion White VJ 34 BJ 9'9 Matt Judon had better numbers at the same weight. I see a comparison to Trey Hendrickson ( Saints 2017 3rd round) and Hendrickson has better numbers. Selling me on explosiveness when the test do not show is not very good in my book. Tape shows you what you need to see. Do you think Jalin Hyatt is slower than Emmanuel Hall/Darius Slayton? Testing is great when you have a limited sample size on guys on-field. Is Orlando Brown less powerful than Brady Quinn? Watch LVN’s tape & tell me he’s not explosive as hell. Especially for his elite size profile. Find an analyst that thinks he’s lacking explosion. Not trying to be a jerk, but I think you’re 1,000% wrong on this player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Either way name me a player drafted in the 1st round who was a backup in college? Regardless of the reasons, the dude was a backup and saw less time because of it be it at DE or DT. Evans/Shannon/Lee/Waggoner or Craig started for them. I cannot recall a player who could be drafted that high as a backup, but the dude can play and is legit athletically and in terms of his skill set. He is well worth a high selection and again when has that happened before to a player as a backup only really in college? Don't know and I honestly don't have time to go research it. I think Rashan Gary is a solid comp in terms of athletic ability and not putting up eye popping numbers. Maybe Ojabo from last year before he got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 5 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: He has a better pass rush plan than Tyree Wilson does IMO. I think LVN goes top 10. He’s got an absurd upside. Yeah he’s light on reps, but I couldn’t call him raw. He’s more than just a big lump of clay to be molded. He was the best player on the best defense in CFB. Don’t get me wrong, I love Hercules. I think Wilson is being overdone too. I’d predict LVN no earlier than 15. I would be fine with my team taking him at 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 25 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: Don't know and I honestly don't have time to go research it. I think Rashan Gary is a solid comp in terms of athletic ability and not putting up eye popping numbers. Maybe Ojabo from last year before he got hurt. Well I did and since around 1998 in terms of 1st round picks across all positions who were mostly backups or rotation guys in college, only one is Felix Jones, and he was on the same team as Darren McFadden the #4 overall pick in 2008, Jones was #22. Also being drafted by Jerry Jones a guy who literally played on Arkansas and owns the team that drafted Felix. I would have taken Mendenhall over Jones no question and maybe a few others but Jones did have that return potential which was interesting as was his big play potential. The Cowboys also had Marion Barber as their starter who was a tank so Jones was potentially a nice change of pace. No one else in that time span that I can recall was a rotational or backup player drafted in the 1st round. So to me yes snap count does matter and despite lack of playing as much as others on the DL, he was still very productive and impactful. Is also easily the most talented player on the DL for them and rotated in a ton obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 On 4/8/2023 at 4:30 AM, Ozzy said: Van Ness to me wowed athletically at the combine, George did not and did not really on the field either physically. High motor and sure Van Ness was not double teamed much sure, but that should not be a problem with a guy with that kind of power and speed. Van Ness in the right system is going to be an awesome pro. And I still say it is because he is so good with that bull rush and power, if rushing as a 3/4 DE or a 4/3 DT he would be hell to stop. Again think of him on the Patriots as a 3/4 DE type with Judon or Uche outside of him, talk about a hard to block. George had a 9.23 RAS that’s pretty athletic man🤷 Like I get where you’re coming from and I like Van Ness too. But I saw a lot of reps of him not winning one-on-one matchups, if he’s only in on 50% of the snaps he should be dominating more especially if he’s not getting double teamed. He’s a guy I rate with GK, mid-late first rounder that needs help, but yes probably has more inside-outside versatility. Could easily see the Chiefs drafting him actually and put into the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 3 hours ago, jebrick said: His combine numbers for explosiveness are fairly bland. VJ 31 BJ: 9'10 Compared to say Adetomiwa Adebawore VJ 37.5 BJ 10'5 Those are TJ Watt numbers Isaiah Foskey VJ 34 BJ 10'5 Byron Young VJ 38 BJ 11 Keion White VJ 34 BJ 9'9 Matt Judon had better numbers at the same weight. I see a comparison to Trey Hendrickson ( Saints 2017 3rd round) and Hendrickson has better numbers. Selling me on explosiveness when the test do not show is not very good in my book. When I watched LVN I saw him be really good as the 2nd or 3rd guy to the ball. His explosion numbers suck. Hendrickson is the best comp for him I've seen. I'm lower on LVN than others in the GB forum as well. Don't love what I see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said: Tape shows you what you need to see. Do you think Jalin Hyatt is slower than Emmanuel Hall/Darius Slayton? Testing is great when you have a limited sample size on guys on-field. Is Orlando Brown less powerful than Brady Quinn? Watch LVN’s tape & tell me he’s not explosive as hell. Especially for his elite size profile. Find an analyst that thinks he’s lacking explosion. Not trying to be a jerk, but I think you’re 1,000% wrong on this player. We will agree to disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Well I did and since around 1998 in terms of 1st round picks across all positions who were mostly backups or rotation guys in college, only one is Felix Jones, and he was on the same team as Darren McFadden the #4 overall pick in 2008, Jones was #22. Also being drafted by Jerry Jones a guy who literally played on Arkansas and owns the team that drafted Felix. I would have taken Mendenhall over Jones no question and maybe a few others but Jones did have that return potential which was interesting as was his big play potential. The Cowboys also had Marion Barber as their starter who was a tank so Jones was potentially a nice change of pace. No one else in that time span that I can recall was a rotational or backup player drafted in the 1st round. So to me yes snap count does matter and despite lack of playing as much as others on the DL, he was still very productive and impactful. Is also easily the most talented player on the DL for them and rotated in a ton obviously. I mean, most players in LVN's situation would have come back for one more year and then this wouldn't even be a discussion. I dont take issue with him not starting cause we all know how Iowa decides starters. And LVN was impactful in fewer snaps. That said, was he so impactful because he was fresher? Would that impactfulness per snap drop if he had played more and been more tired? I think the argument can be made either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Lukas Van Ness is a hard comparison, not many like him currently, I would say is a lot like Chandler Jones if he develops more pass rush moves. Big, long and athletic, Van Ness being more athletic than Jones by a bit. Could play inside, outside or on the edge. He is a lot like a rich mans Cameron Thomas, same build but again Thomas is not near the athlete Van Ness is. Hendrickson I would say has too much bend and flexibility to be compared to Van Ness and not the length or power. There are just not many guys that look like Van Ness, and he is not even close to tapping into all of his potential yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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