EDGE Talk

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Chiefer said:

That’s not really how that works….

Travon Walker much?  Raw but outstanding athletic ability, production did increase his final year in college but the dude was drafted on potential. Rashan Gary, a guy who at times disappointed greatly in college but guess what, super star athletically and is a much better pro player than college.  Dayo Odeyingbo is another one, drafted on athletic upside and potential which he absolutely has.    Not how it works?  Sure at times it does not work like that but other times it does, especially for players who are RS SOPHs without a ton of experience to show what they can do, Van Ness is that and will be a better pro than college player no question.  

 

 

 

What as a Chiefs fan George Karlaftis is the best player ever?  No he just benefits greatly from one of the best pass rushing defensive tackles in the history of the NFL.  Not to mention help having Clark opposite him and no one is calling Mike Danna some super star player, but he is production and solid.  They overpaid for Omenihu but he will be solid for them as well.  Will miss Sanders on the inside I feel but who knows.  Chris Jones and others help keep attention off George and he did have a solid rookie year, will be curious how he does when teams actually game plan against him.  Physically though the upside is greatly different between he and Van Ness in my book.  

[Chiefer]

11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Travon Walker much?  Raw but outstanding athletic ability, production did increase his final year in college but the dude was drafted on potential. Rashan Gary, a guy who at times disappointed greatly in college but guess what, super star athletically and is a much better pro player than college.  Dayo Odeyingbo is another one, drafted on athletic upside and potential which he absolutely has.    Not how it works?  Sure at times it does not work like that but other times it does, especially for players who are RS SOPHs without a ton of experience to show what they can do, Van Ness is that and will be a better pro than college player no question.  

 

 

 

What as a Chiefs fan George Karlaftis is the best player ever?  No he just benefits greatly from one of the best pass rushing defensive tackles in the history of the NFL.  Not to mention help having Clark opposite him and no one is calling Mike Danna some super star player, but he is production and solid.  They overpaid for Omenihu but he will be solid for them as well.  Will miss Sanders on the inside I feel but who knows.  Chris Jones and others help keep attention off George and he did have a solid rookie year, will be curious how he does when teams actually game plan against him.  Physically though the upside is greatly different between he and Van Ness in my book.  

Wow that’s a long response to one sentence😂

im just saying just because a guy got this production from 50% snaps doesn’t mean he’d be better automatically with more snaps. Statistics doesn’t really work like that.

As far as Georgie K, he had a solid rookie year, nothing crazy. Struggled at first but starting Day One in Spagz scheme is difficult. Watching his college tape he got double/triple teamed relentlessly, so I think he can handle it if necessary. Van Ness never got double teamed from tape I’ve seen, and I’m wondering how he will do if he’s a teams sole option. I’m actually a fan of his but it didn’t really seem like opposing offenses gameplanned to shut him down like they did with GK. They left Van Ness single blocked a lot and had success when doing So.

[goldfishwars]

There’s no way I’m drafting a guy in round 1 with the expectation he’s going to be a better pro because his college resume is light. Fool’s gold.

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

There’s no way I’m drafting a guy in round 1 with the expectation he’s going to be a better pro because his college resume is light. Fool’s gold.

Then you would not draft Anthony Richardson, Travon Walker, Derek Stingley Jr, Tyler Smith, Trey Lance, Rashawn Slater, Jayson Oweh, Quinnen Williams, Rashan Gary etc.  Ok.

 

Granted some of them had light college resumes because of injuries where they missed almost a year but still that means only two years as a complete starter and with Lance only one.  Van Ness is a 1st round prospect all day long, and to pretend he would not have been even better with more playing time is pretty foolish.  

 

6 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Wow that’s a long response to one sentence😂

im just saying just because a guy got this production from 50% snaps doesn’t mean he’d be better automatically with more snaps. Statistics doesn’t really work like that.

As far as Georgie K, he had a solid rookie year, nothing crazy. Struggled at first but starting Day One in Spagz scheme is difficult. Watching his college tape he got double/triple teamed relentlessly, so I think he can handle it if necessary. Van Ness never got double teamed from tape I’ve seen, and I’m wondering how he will do if he’s a teams sole option. I’m actually a fan of his but it didn’t really seem like opposing offenses gameplanned to shut him down like they did with GK. They left Van Ness single blocked a lot and had success when doing So.

Van Ness to me wowed athletically at the combine, George did not and did not really on the field either physically.  High motor and sure Van Ness was not double teamed much sure, but that should not be a problem with a guy with that kind of power and speed.  Van Ness in the right system is going to be an awesome pro.  And I still say it is because he is so good with that bull rush and power, if rushing as a 3/4 DE or a 4/3 DT he would be hell to stop.  Again think of him on the Patriots as a 3/4 DE type with Judon or Uche outside of him, talk about a hard to block.  

[Hunter2_1]

15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

.  Again think of him on the Patriots as a 3/4 DE type with Judon or Uche outside of him, talk about a hard to block.  

Yes please 

[jebrick]

6 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

There’s no way I’m drafting a guy in round 1 with the expectation he’s going to be a better pro because his college resume is light. Fool’s gold.

I tend to agree with you but that never happens.  The draft is all about projection.  Throw out the stats for the WR in a spread offense.  They mean nothing in the NFL.  Most of the Dlinemen need to get stronger and learn technique.  That is always why year 2 is so critical to see the player development.

[goldfishwars]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Then you would not draft Anthony Richardson, Travon Walker, Derek Stingley Jr, Tyler Smith, Trey Lance, Rashawn Slater, Jayson Oweh, Quinnen Williams, Rashan Gary etc.  Ok.

What a bizarre list of players. Some of those were seasoned starters on their rosters, others actually prove the opposite of what you're arguing. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by goldfishwars

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I tend to agree with you but that never happens.  The draft is all about projection.  Throw out the stats for the WR in a spread offense.  They mean nothing in the NFL.  Most of the Dlinemen need to get stronger and learn technique.  That is always why year 2 is so critical to see the player development.

This, it’s all projection. Most guys need to be spoon fed until they can prove they are ready for table food per se. Even the ones that are ready they still make baby mistakes and teams scheme towards your weaknesses. 
 

Year two is the biggest gap in growth for the majority of guys.

Edited April 8, 2023 by MSURacerDT55

[goldfishwars]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

I tend to agree with you but that never happens.  The draft is all about projection.  Throw out the stats for the WR in a spread offense.  They mean nothing in the NFL.  Most of the Dlinemen need to get stronger and learn technique.  That is always why year 2 is so critical to see the player development.

Eh - to a point, but this isn't basketball. Players aren't being drafted on traits alone, you've should have to put up tangible quality on film to get drafted in round 1 and that means being trusted to start games. 

[Kampfgeist]

Van Ness is underrated because he didn't "start" more games.    If he had the same stats he has now but started more games vs finished more games he'd be valued more highly by some.   That's the Iowa seniority system.   It wasn't a talent issue.  Had he returned to school next year he'd be a full-time "starter" and there wouldn't be any more question marks

[Ragnarok]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Then you would not draft Anthony Richardson, Travon Walker, Derek Stingley Jr, Tyler Smith, Trey Lance, Rashawn Slater, Jayson Oweh, Quinnen Williams, Rashan Gary etc.  Ok.  

LVN didn't come close to having a season on par with Stingley, Slater, and Quinnen.  Bad comparisons.

I think Travon and Gary are good examples of super athletic guys who didn't put up the stats you'd expect in college.  Gary has panned out, Travon remains to be seen.

[Scoundrel]

35 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

LVN didn't come close to having a season on par with Stingley, Slater, and Quinnen.  Bad comparisons.

I think Travon and Gary are good examples of super athletic guys who didn't put up the stats you'd expect in college.  Gary has panned out, Travon remains to be seen.

The UGA system also was never going to produce those sacks for Travon. No one since Kirby Smart has been head coach has had double digit sacks (Ojulari had 9.5 then D’Andre Walker had a season of 7.5) and both of those players played different roles than the Travon Walker role in that defense.

[Ragnarok]

Just now, Scoundrel said:

The UGA system also was never going to produce those sacks for Travon. No one since Kirby Smart has been head coach has double digit sacks (Ojulari had 9.5 then D’Andre Walker had a season of 7.5) and both of those players played different roles than the Travon Walker role in that defense.

Exactly.  Similarly, you can look at how Iowa always starts older guys to explain why LVN didn't start.  Its looking beyond the numbers to figure out whether a guy was underperforming or performing his role in the system.

[jebrick]

50 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Eh - to a point, but this isn't basketball. Players aren't being drafted on traits alone, you've should have to put up tangible quality on film to get drafted in round 1 and that means being trusted to start games. 

To a point. They have to have some film but most of it is projection to the NFL game.   JT Watt did not show on film what he did in the NFL because that is Wisconsin's defense.  He showed amazing explosive numbers.  Teams project what he would look like at OLB rather than.

The CBs do not know their position.  They know enough to run the defense their coach wants.

[MOSteelers56]

All I’m hearing here is that LVN needs to be the 17th pick in the first round lol