EDGE Talk

[THE DUKE]

2 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

What ever ended up happening with Jeff Gunter? I liked him a lot...pretty sure he was a Bengal, no?

Injuries

[sparky151]

6 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

What ever ended up happening with Jeff Gunter? I liked him a lot...pretty sure he was a Bengal, no?

He's on the Bengals roster as DE5, behind Hendrickson, Hubbard, Sample, and Ossai. 

[Chiefer]

Is Nolan Smith the next Manny Lawson?

[Forge]

2 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Is Nolan Smith the next Manny Lawson?

potentially, but I actually think that works in his favor. If he doesn't work as a true edge rusher, I think that there is a decent shot that you can move him into a full time off ball role and he could blitz well and be good in coverage. Kind of like the tackle / guard prospect that you're not sure will play tackle but still feel pretty good about because you're pretty sure that he's going to be a good guard at the very least. 

Lawson was mostly a fine player who had some solid years and played a decade after being a late first round pick, so if you pick Smith 15-20 and he's that guy, you can be underwhelmed but it would still be a good pick. 

[Dr LBC]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:16 PM, goldfishwars said:

I don’t really get what some of the supposed top edge players get you, that you couldn’t get from a Zach Harrison or KJ Henry on day two. Want an inflexible tough guy with some stiffness? Wait it out. At least I know how Ojulari’s skill-set translates as an NFL pass rusher.

Tools-wise, I get you on this, and while I realize it can be coached up, I just don't see a dog in a number of these toolsy-by-content-to-coast-on-their-tools guys like Harrison.  Reminds me of a less naturally athletic Dante Fowler.  This class, more than any, I get the feeling we see the kind of EDGE class on the whole that we say from Fowler's class where there are 1 or 2 early guys who justify their stock during their rookie deals, a couple of guys who bust out on sheer attitude and dedication, and a whole lot of guys who float around on 1-2 year deals past their rookie contracts because they'll have one flashy season in optimum circumstances, get overpaid on the back of that, then go back to being relatively under-inspiring.

[Dr LBC]

On 3/30/2023 at 6:52 AM, BetterCallSaul said:

His tape is as good as anyone's, but he lacks "wow" traits. He has solid bend, solid power, solid variance in his pass rush plan, is solid against the run...he's just solid and productive. There are some superfreaks with superpowers in the draft class as far as pass rushers are concerned. I think that's why he's "sliding" down boards.

That said, Foskey is a legit player and will be a long-time starter IMO.

Pretty much this.  And in a class that has some better-than-most depth at the top end of other premium positions (CB, WR) along with 4 QB's that are largely locks to go in the 1st due to scarcity/demand, and 1 pick in the 1st round forfeited due to rule-violation, those "solid-but-not-electrifying" guys tend to slip.

[Chiefer]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

potentially, but I actually think that works in his favor. If he doesn't work as a true edge rusher, I think that there is a decent shot that you can move him into a full time off ball role and he could blitz well and be good in coverage. Kind of like the tackle / guard prospect that you're not sure will play tackle but still feel pretty good about because you're pretty sure that he's going to be a good guard at the very least. 

Lawson was mostly a fine player who had some solid years and played a decade after being a late first round pick, so if you pick Smith 15-20 and he's that guy, you can be underwhelmed but it would still be a good pick. 

So it’s not just me, was hoping a 9er fan would chime in. I get serious Manny vibes from Smith, seems like a traditional strong side DE/OLB or SAM Lb. He’ll be good against the run, can run and chase down the line, should be good in pass coverage. But I’m not seeing the pure pass rush ability I was hoping for. With the athletic testing there’s not as much burst off the line as I thought. And I know Manny tested out of this world athletically, 10.0 RAS and scored high on Waldo’s formula. 

You’ll get a good player for sure, and he’s well regarded in the locker room and his teammates love him. He’ll be worth a later first round pick, and will be a steal in the second.
 

 

[MWil23]

Serious question:

I haven’t seen Foskey mentioned much at all and thought he’d be a R2 lock. Any idea why he’s not getting much attention?

[Ozzy]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:55 AM, jebrick said:

Karlaftis by far.  Karlaftis had much more mature pass rushing moves and sand in his pants to be able to stop the run.  LVN seems very raw.  Trying to watch him vs tOSU and have a hard time because he is not on the field and when he is it is very underwhelming.  I would have LVN as a day 2 pick but someone could take a chance he will develop. 

Really?  Van Ness has WAY more upside and potential than Karlaftis.  Sure Karlaftis is a better pass rusher out of college but in terms of pure bull rush ability and ability to hold his position on the DL, Van Ness all the way.  Van Ness is taller, longer, heavier and potentially could be a bull in a 3/4 DE spot or could maybe be a DT in a 4/3 or a rock edge in a 4/3.  Athletically his 40 time was super impressive for a dude his size, he is more raw coming out but again his upside is by far higher to me.  

 

Could Karlaftis do this to one of the best OTs in the up coming draft, the answer is hell no.  Van Ness has rare physical ability as a edge player to rock guys and push them back or knock them over like he did here.  Dude is a super looking prospect and is easily a 1st round pick no question about it.  

 

[lark25]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Really?  Van Ness has WAY more upside and potential than Karlaftis.  Sure Karlaftis is a better pass rusher out of college but in terms of pure bull rush ability and ability to hold his position on the DL, Van Ness all the way.  Van Ness is taller, longer, heavier and potentially could be a bull in a 3/4 DE spot or could maybe be a DT in a 4/3 or a rock edge in a 4/3.  Athletically his 40 time was super impressive for a dude his size, he is more raw coming out but again his upside is by far higher to me.  

 

Could Karlaftis do this to one of the best OTs in the up coming draft, the answer is hell no.  Van Ness has rare physical ability as a edge player to rock guys and push them back or knock them over like he did here.  Dude is a super looking prospect and is easily a 1st round pick no question about it.  

 

I think you criminally underrated karlaftis strength and athleticism. Id argue they're on par but LVN should go higher as last year's class was better overall at edge.

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Serious question:

I haven’t seen Foskey mentioned much at all and thought he’d be a R2 lock. Any idea why he’s not getting much attention?

Because he was never that good in the first place.

Also this class's talent is IMO largely concentrated on that second/third tier of guys where Foskey is, and it's like 10 guys.  Easy to fade into the background when not much about your game stands out.

[Forge]

8 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Serious question:

I haven’t seen Foskey mentioned much at all and thought he’d be a R2 lock. Any idea why he’s not getting much attention?

Just a ton of guys in that tier imo. 

[Ozzy]

12 hours ago, lark25 said:

I think you criminally underrated karlaftis strength and athleticism. Id argue they're on par but LVN should go higher as last year's class was better overall at edge.

Maybe but Van Ness played what 50% of the snaps at Iowa, pretty sure George played way more than that and got less production than Van Ness did, thus if Van Ness played more he would have been even better potentially.

 

To me it is not even close, George is like a fire hydrant athletically, very short arms and is stocky, Van Ness is a dude who could easily get stronger and is already way faster straight line and has way better power.  Sure George can bench press well but that is helped greatly by having shorter arms, and fact is Van Ness is a stone wall on the line and does not get pushed around and provides a great push on the OL.  George did not do that and relies on his agility, bend and motor to get pressure and cannot knock guys backward like Van Ness.  

Van Ness is a freaking dude who will most likely get even better and be better as a player in the NFL than college.  He could be a super star on say the Patriots for example.  

[BetterCallSaul]

12 hours ago, lark25 said:

I think you criminally underrated karlaftis strength and athleticism. Id argue they're on par but LVN should go higher as last year's class was better overall at edge.

EDIT: yeah last year was loaded. I had forgotten about how many of those dudes I liked. This is a really good class too, even though it’s not as strong at the tippy top. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by BetterCallSaul

[Chiefer]

14 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe but Van Ness played what 50% of the snaps at Iowa, pretty sure George played way more than that and got less production than Van Ness did, thus if Van Ness played more he would have been even better potentially.

That’s not really how that works….