BroncoinGermany Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: The amount of draft compensation given up for an aging QB and a coach is what is absolutely insane though. Three firsts and three seconds, plus multiple players. Insanity. This move signifies the belief that we are a coach away from a SB. What else could it mean? Why else do you make the move? The Broncos continue to disappoint me in that they are doing stupid things to try and win once in a 3 year window and then wash, rinse, repeat. We could have traded these picks for any young QB the last few years and hired a coach without the comp. It's just hard for me to see the vision here. Ever since the contract was given to Wilson, the vision was limited to doing whatever is possible to get most out of him. We can lament the overall rudderlessness of the franchise post PFM yet except for Harbaugh there would not have been a better move to get comfortable in the corner Paton boxed the franchise in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, broncos67 said: The amount of draft compensation given up for an aging QB and a coach is what is absolutely insane though. Three firsts and three seconds, plus multiple players. Insanity. This move signifies the belief that we are a coach away from a SB. What else could it mean? Why else do you make the move? The Broncos continue to disappoint me in that they are doing stupid things to try and win once in a 3 year window and then wash, rinse, repeat. We could have traded these picks for any young QB the last few years and hired a coach without the comp. It's just hard for me to see the vision here. Win now under Ellis/Elway. Win now under the Walmarts. That appears to be the MO. It’s shortsighted and if Russ isn’t fixable, we’re f’d for years with no QB, no young, inexpensive, controllable players, and a HC who will run ASAP to save his legacy. Now, it could work - Payton is a good HC - and since the Walmarts went all-in to land a big name - their primary goal in all of this - they‘ll come out smelling like roses if we can even get a few playoff wins and return to relevancy. But, boy, if it doesn’t work…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, broncos67 said: The amount of draft compensation given up for an aging QB and a coach is what is absolutely insane though. Three firsts and three seconds, plus multiple players. Insanity. This move signifies the belief that we are a coach away from a SB. What else could it mean? Why else do you make the move? The Broncos continue to disappoint me in that they are doing stupid things to try and win once in a 3 year window and then wash, rinse, repeat. We could have traded these picks for any young QB the last few years and hired a coach without the comp. It's just hard for me to see the vision here. in a vacuum I agree with you but you can't look at it as a vacuum. The team traded for wilson because they had no qb since Manning. The team trades for Payton because they haven't had a competent offense since Manning and Kubiak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: in a vacuum I agree with you but you can't look at it as a vacuum. The team traded for wilson because they had no qb since Manning. The team trades for Payton because they haven't had a competent offense since Manning and Kubiak. They haven't had a competent offense because we continue to hire people like Rich Scangarello, Pat Shurmur, and Justin Outten at OC. Denver has done an awful job at selecting both QBs and HCs, and rather than adjust the criteria, they've sought to pay their way out of the situation. It worked once, it probably won't work again. I'd love to be wrong, but being wrong on a decision like this sets the franchise back a decade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: in a vacuum I agree with you but you can't look at it as a vacuum. The team traded for wilson because they had no qb since Manning. The team trades for Payton because they haven't had a competent offense since Manning and Kubiak. And there is an argument for this for sure. You can’t draft a QB so you trade for one you think is legit. You keep whiffing on HC hires, you go get the best one you can’t. I don’t doubt the desire by George last year to get Russ and I don’t doubt the Walmarts going all-in for the big name in Payton. I can question the execution and the price. Look how 3/4 of the fanbase 9/10 of the opinion media want George fired for the Russ trade. The ones - fans and media alike - who are dancing a jig right now about the Payton hire will be the first to turn on Payton if/when he doesn’t fix Russ, if/when he can’t beat KC, if/when he can’t beat the McRaiders, etc. All Ben and I are saying is this was a lot, one whole hell of a lot, to surrender for a coach who has a good record but not one without some pretty significant blemishes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, broncos67 said: They haven't had a competent offense because we continue to hire people like Rich Scangarello, Pat Shurmur, and Justin Outten at OC. Denver has done an awful job at selecting both QBs and HCs, and rather than adjust the criteria, they've sought to pay their way out of the situation. It worked once, it probably won't work again. I'd love to be wrong, but being wrong on a decision like this sets the franchise back a decade. The Russ trade can backfire and can continue to backfire. Payton as long as he's committed to coaching here for years 8+ I think this deal is worth it. If Russ continues to falter I think Payton gets his choice of young qb to develop via draft free agency or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: They haven't had a competent offense because we continue to hire people like Rich Scangarello, Pat Shurmur, and Justin Outten at OC. Denver has done an awful job at selecting both QBs and HCs, and rather than adjust the criteria, they've sought to pay their way out of the situation. It worked once, it probably won't work again. I'd love to be wrong, but being wrong on a decision like this sets the franchise back a decade. That’s the biggest plus of hiring Payton (and far from the only one). We’ve endlessly cycled through all these OCs and their system installs that last well into the season, and even when you get a good one (we haven’t) they will be gone within two years. Now you have an offensive genius building the scheme and calling the plays who won’t be going anywhere any time soon. And unlike all the young OCs that get interviews and jobs every year, you already know Payton can coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoinGermany Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Broncos ade negotiating to get Vic back as DC per Dave Logan / MHR. Wild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, broncos67 said: They haven't had a competent offense because we continue to hire people like Rich Scangarello, Pat Shurmur, and Justin Outten at OC. Denver has done an awful job at selecting both QBs and HCs, and rather than adjust the criteria, they've sought to pay their way out of the situation. It worked once, it probably won't work again. I'd love to be wrong, but being wrong on a decision like this sets the franchise back a decade. To be fair they finally hired the guy that should fix it. With a legit track record to prove it. Overall I'm happy with the decision. Getting a good HC in house is a huge step. Obviously with the caveat that things can always go south ... like we saw with Russ ... "lol" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 21 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Sean Paton doesn't have a huge coaching tree despite being a head coach for so long anyone have any theories why that is? Same OC since 2009. Same QB coach for like 10 of Payton’s last 12 years. He just didn’t cycle through coaching tree candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, thebestever6 said: The Russ trade can backfire and can continue to backfire. Payton as long as he's committed to coaching here for years 8+ I think this deal is worth it. If Russ continues to falter I think Payton gets his choice of young qb to develop via draft free agency or both. Look if Sean (and I use first names as my phone will correct any mention Paton or Payton to Peyton, lol), sticks around for 8 year and builds a contender long-term, I’m all-in. The Walmarts are such unknowns. This whole coaching search has been a s***show, even if it landed on a very strong candidate. I’m also just a natural skeptic. If they play the long game (and Penner himself admitted he is impatient, not a good look, I cringed when he said that in the presser) then it could very well work out and work out gloriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, BroncoinGermany said: Broncos ade negotiating to get Vic back as DC per Dave Logan / MHR. Wild. Now that will piss me the F*** off. Evero is a much better DC - not only Xs and Os wise but in his ability to relate to players and get the critical buy-in. Bringing Vic back here is not a great idea, he does not enjoy a good two among players, especially here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Now that will piss me the F*** off. Evero is a much better DC - not only Xs and Os wise but in his ability to relate to players and get the critical buy-in. Bringing Vic back here is not a great idea, he does not enjoy a good two among players, especially here. That was a concern with Fangio the head coach. Fangio the DC has a better resume than any active DC in the league. That’s more important than the hurt feelings of a handful of players who have done nothing but lose here and probably loved Hackett. Payton + Fangio would be an amazing combo. Would love to have Evero back but it doesn’t sound like he wants to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 So no early picks this year now. Do they really think this roster is a coach away from beating our division opponents not to mention Buffalo and Cincy ? Going to take a miraculous turn around of Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Now that will piss me the F*** off. Evero is a much better DC - not only Xs and Os wise but in his ability to relate to players and get the critical buy-in. Bringing Vic back here is not a great idea, he does not enjoy a good two among players, especially here. Dude it's so awkward and horrible on so many levels. It would essentially add 2 thirds to this trade for Payton...something to think about. It also brings a dude back in the building who majority broncos fans and players flat out don't like. It also completely NEUTERS Paton...could you imagine your boss bringing back a dude that YOU fired AND taking away more of your ability to showcase what you are elite at (draft) 😄. All this with Wilson already losing part of the locker room. I don't see how we wouldn't burn up like a supernova Edited January 31, 2023 by Dbrog24 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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