ThatJerkDave Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 16 minutes ago, Green19 said: I think Kraft is more your guy. He is the YAC TE of the two. Musgrave seems like the just silly speed blow the top of the defense. He isn’t going to run around like a bull in a China shop. with both on the field I see Musgrave as the clear out guy with Kraft coming underneath. Scare the safeties deep with Musgrave’s speed and then dump it off to Kraft for him to just go hunt for contact and bowl guys over. edit: people are comp him to Jimmy Graham. And I think that makes sense. Jimmy wasn’t terrible physical when running. He just out ran dudes and skied them in jump balls. Musgrave seems like that mold. Kraft is definitely more my style. But both of them still need more work before they are ready for prime time. Luckily, or unluckily, they should get plenty of live action to learn with this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: It's entirely likely I have outsized expectations on TE blocking. I really only paid attention to Mayer and Washington in this class (and later, Kraft). I came away thinking Musgrave is hilariously bad from a physical POV compared to those three at least. I also think Toddler Davis is atrocious in that regard. Musgrave reminded me a bit of him, actually. I haven't focused on Tonyan before so have nothing to offer there. As someone who didn't watch Musgrave, or know anything about where and how he played.... Was he their best weapon on offense? If so, it would make sense that he didn't block much. Kindda sounds like pre-injury, he was a focal point of their offense. Just looking for reasons as to why his blocking may not be as good as we would want right now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 3 hours ago, craig said: I don't have huge expectations for a lanky TE to break a lot of tackles or YAC a lot. A lot of the throws are up, taking advantage of his length. Little space/time to secure and reset balance for YAC. The film is from two years back; young men in low 20's often gain strength, so he may be more physical with the Packers than in the college film. I kinda like it when guys focus on catch, before aspiring to YAC. I'm not super concerned based on that film. But yeah, he's trying to run/lean for yards more than he is bulldozing anybody. He's so long, he's not really configured to bulldoze guys. Yep, in many cases he's going to drop where he caught it. He might have some plays schemed open, but for the most part his YAC is pretty limited. His big concern is staying healthy. He'll be productive, it just won't be pretty doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: As someone who didn't watch Musgrave, or know anything about where and how he played.... Was he their best weapon on offense? If so, it would make sense that he didn't block much. Kindda sounds like pre-injury, he was a focal point of their offense. Just looking for reasons as to why his blocking may not be as good as we would want right now..... He wasn't much of the focal point in 2021. The HC said they had to concentrate on getting their best player(Musgrave) the ball more often in 2022. After 2 games of decent numbers in 2022, Musgrave was lost for the season. Musgrave isnt your TE bubble screen type, he's a beat you 15 yards down the field and flash out to the flat guy. He'll live out in that 10-20 yard downfield area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 3 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: Kraft is definitely more my style. But both of them still need more work before they are ready for prime time. Luckily, or unluckily, they should get plenty of live action to learn with this season. Yes, we gotta give Musgrave, Kraft and Reed some time to grow. It's going to take time. Watson started out slow last year with the injuries, and that led to some time getting adjusted and comfortable in the offense. Patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 30 minutes ago, NFLGURU said: ...Musgrave isnt your TE bubble screen type, he's a beat you 15 yards down the field and flash out to the flat guy. He'll live out in that 10-20 yard downfield area. Will be interesting if MLF will do that? In past MLF has been pretty prioritized in using running plays and throws that are either behind the LOS or <10 yards beyond it. Maybe he'll shift that up some with Love, but it doesn't seem MLF has been very oriented towards calling lots of throws more than 10 yards downfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLGURU Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, craig said: Will be interesting if MLF will do that? In past MLF has been pretty prioritized in using running plays and throws that are either behind the LOS or <10 yards beyond it. Maybe he'll shift that up some with Love, but it doesn't seem MLF has been very oriented towards calling lots of throws more than 10 yards downfield. Agree, it will be interesting. I dont see him as a screen guy and working his way through traffic with YAC. Maybe they'll run some plays like that?, or let Kraft run them? We'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, craig said: Will be interesting if MLF will do that? In past MLF has been pretty prioritized in using running plays and throws that are either behind the LOS or <10 yards beyond it. Maybe he'll shift that up some with Love, but it doesn't seem MLF has been very oriented towards calling lots of throws more than 10 yards downfield. That's Rodgers, not MLF. He probably stopped sending TEs on seam routes because Aaron never threw the ball there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, incognito_man said: That's Rodgers, not MLF. He probably stopped sending TEs on seam routes because Aaron never threw the ball there I'll never understand why he stopped throwing those, he did it all the time till like 2017-18ish? It's not like we didn't have TEs that could do it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 27 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said: I'll never understand why he stopped throwing those, he did it all the time till like 2017-18ish? It's not like we didn't have TEs that could do it either I think a lot of it was that Rodgers was convinced he understood offense better than MLF and wanted to prove it via on-field results. After all the QB looks better if he buys time in the pocket, manipulates the safety with his eyes, and fits the pass in a very narrow space than if he just throws it to the guy who's wide open because of the play design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 2 hours ago, NFLGURU said: Agree, it will be interesting. I dont see him as a screen guy and working his way through traffic with YAC. Maybe they'll run some plays like that?, or let Kraft run them? We'll find out. I disagree. Musgrave is about as fluid a TE you will see. He isn't going to bowl over defenders but he has plenty of wiggle and speed to avoid them to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffdaswede Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said: I think a lot of it was that Rodgers was convinced he understood offense better than MLF and wanted to prove it via on-field results. After all the QB looks better if he buys time in the pocket, manipulates the safety with his eyes, and fits the pass in a very narrow space than if he just throws it to the guy who's wide open because of the play design. Hang on… this take is not very PosCab. You are usually the sober one with cool facts to counter the passionately mistaken hot takes. We saw the stills that suggested Aaron was missing open receivers. Keep in mind I really respect your opinion—you really believe Aaron saw receivers coming open but hung onto the ball looking for splashier, higher-risk opportunities downfield? Because if all that was deliberate, it either means his skills were eroding or he was deliberately, knowingly forcing GB into making a trade. Edited May 5, 2023 by Uffdaswede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 9 hours ago, Lodestar said: 1:05 - makes a great leaping catch away from his body on a ball thrown behind him; understandably stumbles and falls on his way to the ground. 1:16 - clearly trying to get out of bounds during a two-minute drill (which he does); whether or not that's the right choice is a different call, but I think he could have easily had the first if he wasn't trying to get out of bounds. 2:30 - it's 1st and 10, he's in the middle of the field; most TEs don't even get their body turned around before the hit; instead he gets 2-3 extra yards and (as you pointed out) effectively gets the first down, even if the next play is 2nd and inches. 4:16 - the fact that he gets his body turned upfield at all is impressive for a TE; he then breaks three tackles before being brought down by literally the entire Utah State defense. Maybe he could have powered through the second or third tackler to get the first down, but IMO there is a lot to like in this play! We are seeing two different guys, that's all there is to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 4 hours ago, NFLGURU said: Agree, it will be interesting. I dont see him as a screen guy and working his way through traffic with YAC. Maybe they'll run some plays like that?, or let Kraft run them? We'll find out. How MLF uses Musgrave/Kraft will be impacted by the health and function of the O-line. First half last year, Newman was bat at RT, Jenkins was bad at RT, Nijman wasn't too hot at either LT or RT, Jake Hansen wasn't a great starting guard. (And Runyan and Myers were nothing special, either.). MLF didn't trust his line, and kept Tonyan and others back to help stabilize protection. Even of those who played a lot, guys other than Myers changed positions. Nijman LT/RT; Jenkins RT>G; Runyan LG > RG. Tom bopped all over. Newman played RT and RG. Late in season I thought it maybe stabiized, but I assume come week 2 this season somebody will be injured and we'll probably again be in perpetual scramble mode. My ramble is simply that MLF was routinely holding Mercedes and Tonyan back to help protect Rodgers from his vulnerable line. *IF* the o-line was miraculously more healthy, it's possible that MLF might be a little more willing a little more often to send out TE's on routes? That could end up being fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 30 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: We are seeing two different guys, that's all there is to it. What is "How divorce talks start" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.