2.42 - Luke Musgrave [TE; Oregon State]

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

It's entirely likely I have outsized expectations on TE blocking. I really only paid attention to Mayer and Washington in this class (and later, Kraft). I came away thinking Musgrave is hilariously bad from a physical POV compared to those three at least. I also think Toddler Davis is atrocious in that regard. Musgrave reminded me a bit of him, actually. I haven't focused on Tonyan before so have nothing to offer there.

Most of the time, blocking is all about willingness and technique. Musgrave needs a lot of work in the latter department. Think Dallas Goedert. Very similar athletic profiles for a move/F TE. 

But yes, this is the reason why I posted yesterday about resigning Lewis. They don't have a player like him on the roster right now. In fact, in terms of an in-line blocker who isn't going to get blown off the line, I'm not sure they have anyone right now other than maybe Deguara. 

[skibrett15]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

But yes, this is the reason why I posted yesterday about resigning Lewis. They don't have a player like him on the roster right now. In fact, in terms of an in-line blocker who isn't going to get blown off the line, I'm not sure they have anyone right now other than maybe Deguara. 

Zach Tom can play that position

[skibrett15]

point being Lewis was such a zero/un-used receiver that I don't really see the point of that type player

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Most of the time, blocking is all about willingness and technique. Musgrave needs a lot of work in the latter department. Think Dallas Goedert. Very similar athletic profiles for a move/F TE. 

But yes, this is the reason why I posted yesterday about resigning Lewis. They don't have a player like him on the roster right now. In fact, in terms of an in-line blocker who isn't going to get blown off the line, I'm not sure they have anyone right now other than maybe Deguara. 

I don't really care about having Lewis on the field nearly as much as there every day in the TE room and weight room and practice field

[Leader]

23 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I like that part of his game .. he's a mismatch, but he needs to learn how to secure the ball with one arm and smack the crap out of defenders with the free arm.  Kid has absolutely no clue how to do that and it seems like simple football 101.  Until he learns to do that he's just a big softy. 

Seriously.

[Packerraymond]

25 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

It's entirely likely I have outsized expectations on TE blocking. I really only paid attention to Mayer and Washington in this class (and later, Kraft). I came away thinking Musgrave is hilariously bad from a physical POV compared to those three at least. I also think Toddler Davis is atrocious in that regard. Musgrave reminded me a bit of him, actually. I haven't focused on Tonyan before so have nothing to offer there.

Darnell Washington is not the norm ha, he's a unicorn. I'm surprised they didn't pull the trigger there at 78 even with the swollen knees. Wonder if he got to the 4th if we'd have pulled the trigger.

[ThatJerkDave]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Slzz3toUkc

1:05, that is a play he should make the first down.

1:16, again short of the sticks, and needs to make that first down.

2:30, he may have gotten the first down, but it is very close.  A guy his size should be able to push forward to get the yardage.

4:16, he kind of breaks some tackles here.  But it is 4th down, and looking at the yellow line, he doesn't get the yardage from my view.  

There is absolutely stuff to like there.  He runs very fast for a guy of his stature.  He gets open, even adjusting for coverage to be a little better, most of those he is NFL open already.  I didn't see many (if any) body catches.  The negatives on this reel are that he is almost always brought down by the first defender.  This reel doesn't show any blocking, and as mentioned by others, he isn't very good at it either.  Bubba Franks never broke any tackles, and Antonio Gates, and Jimmy Graham weren't much of blockers.  They made it work.  

I guess I am trying to temper expectations.  I don't think he is some kind of TE Messiah that suddenly changes this team into a TE heavy one.  This isn't an unopened fresh box of Travis Kelce.  There is a lot of work for him to do.

[LacyIsGood]

22 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

point being Lewis was such a zero/un-used receiver that I don't really see the point of that type player

Agreed.

As for Musgrave as a boom/bust, I think having an uncle that played and coaches in the NFL raises his floor.

[craig]

5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

point being Lewis was such a zero/un-used receiver that I don't really see the point of that type player

14 teams were in the playoffs; none of them had Mercedes Lewis, and most without any TE who blocks much like Mercedes does.  Lots of offenses better than ours, work with 5 OL instead of 6.  Some create opportunities for their running game by keeping the box less cluttered and by keeping opposing defenses in lots of nickel and dime.  It's going to be different for sure; but I hope they can make it work with some different personnel with different talents.  

Hope Musgrave toughens up and ends up being anti-awful as a blocker, better than Finley or Graham or Tonyan.  But if he's going out and catching lots of first downs, there's value in that, even if he doesn't YAC much.  

[incognito_man]

19 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Darnell Washington is not the norm ha, he's a unicorn. I'm surprised they didn't pull the trigger there at 78 even with the swollen knees. Wonder if he got to the 4th if we'd have pulled the trigger.

I doubt we would have spent back to back to back picks on TE. I suspect he was off our board. Guessing he has arthritis in his knees already.

[craig]

I don't have huge expectations for a lanky TE to break a lot of tackles or YAC a lot.  A lot of the throws are up, taking advantage of his length.  Little space/time to secure and reset balance for YAC.  The film is from two years back;  young men in low 20's often gain strength, so he may be more physical with the Packers than in the college film.  I kinda like it when guys focus on catch, before aspiring to YAC.  I'm not super concerned based on that film.  But yeah, he's trying to run/lean for yards more than he is bulldozing anybody.  He's so long, he's not really configured to bulldoze guys.  

[Lodestar]

28 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Slzz3toUkc

1:05, that is a play he should make the first down.

1:16, again short of the sticks, and needs to make that first down.

2:30, he may have gotten the first down, but it is very close.  A guy his size should be able to push forward to get the yardage.

4:16, he kind of breaks some tackles here.  But it is 4th down, and looking at the yellow line, he doesn't get the yardage from my view.  

There is absolutely stuff to like there.  He runs very fast for a guy of his stature.  He gets open, even adjusting for coverage to be a little better, most of those he is NFL open already.  I didn't see many (if any) body catches.  The negatives on this reel are that he is almost always brought down by the first defender.  This reel doesn't show any blocking, and as mentioned by others, he isn't very good at it either.  Bubba Franks never broke any tackles, and Antonio Gates, and Jimmy Graham weren't much of blockers.  They made it work.  

I guess I am trying to temper expectations.  I don't think he is some kind of TE Messiah that suddenly changes this team into a TE heavy one.  This isn't an unopened fresh box of Travis Kelce.  There is a lot of work for him to do.

1:05 - makes a great leaping catch away from his body on a ball thrown behind him; understandably stumbles and falls on his way to the ground.

1:16 - clearly trying to get out of bounds during a two-minute drill (which he does); whether or not that's the right choice is a different call, but I think he could have easily had the first if he wasn't trying to get out of bounds.

2:30 - it's 1st and 10, he's in the middle of the field; most TEs don't even get their body turned around before the hit; instead he gets 2-3 extra yards and (as you pointed out) effectively gets the first down, even if the next play is 2nd and inches.

4:16 - the fact that he gets his body turned upfield at all is impressive for a TE; he then breaks three tackles before being brought down by literally the entire Utah State defense. Maybe he could have powered through the second or third tackler to get the first down, but IMO there is a lot to like in this play!

[R T]

13 minutes ago, craig said:

I don't have huge expectations for a lanky TE to break a lot of tackles or YAC a lot.  A lot of the throws are up, taking advantage of his length.  Little space/time to secure and reset balance for YAC.  The film is from two years back;  young men in low 20's often gain strength, so he may be more physical with the Packers than in the college film.  I kinda like it when guys focus on catch, before aspiring to YAC.  I'm not super concerned based on that film.  But yeah, he's trying to run/lean for yards more than he is bulldozing anybody.  He's so long, he's not really configured to bulldoze guys.  

Agree. Tall lanky TE's are rarely good blockers or tackle breakers. Too easy to be chopped down as a runner and too easy to get under as a blocker. 

[Green19]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Slzz3toUkc

1:05, that is a play he should make the first down.

1:16, again short of the sticks, and needs to make that first down.

2:30, he may have gotten the first down, but it is very close.  A guy his size should be able to push forward to get the yardage.

4:16, he kind of breaks some tackles here.  But it is 4th down, and looking at the yellow line, he doesn't get the yardage from my view.  

There is absolutely stuff to like there.  He runs very fast for a guy of his stature.  He gets open, even adjusting for coverage to be a little better, most of those he is NFL open already.  I didn't see many (if any) body catches.  The negatives on this reel are that he is almost always brought down by the first defender.  This reel doesn't show any blocking, and as mentioned by others, he isn't very good at it either.  Bubba Franks never broke any tackles, and Antonio Gates, and Jimmy Graham weren't much of blockers.  They made it work.  

I guess I am trying to temper expectations.  I don't think he is some kind of TE Messiah that suddenly changes this team into a TE heavy one.  This isn't an unopened fresh box of Travis Kelce.  There is a lot of work for him to do.

I think Kraft is more your guy. He is the YAC TE of the two. Musgrave seems like the just silly speed blow the top of the defense. He isn’t going to run around like a bull in a China shop.

with both on the field I see Musgrave as the clear out guy with Kraft coming underneath. Scare the safeties deep with Musgrave’s speed and then dump it off to Kraft for him to just go hunt for contact and bowl guys over.

edit: people are comp him to Jimmy Graham. And I think that makes sense. Jimmy wasn’t terrible physical when running. He just out ran dudes and skied them in jump balls. Musgrave seems like that mold.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Green19

[Refugee]

2 minutes ago, Green19 said:

I think Kraft is more your guy. He is the YAC TE of the two. Musgrave seems like the just silly speed blow the top of the defense. He isn’t going to run around like a bull in a China shop.

with both on the field I see Musgrave as the clear out guy with Kraft coming underneath. Scare the safeties deep with Musgrave’s speed and then dump it off to Kraft for him to just go hunt for contact and bowl guys over.

Musgrave has to become a decent enough blocker to sustain his block in the run game but also to chip but then leave his man and find the soft spots in the defense. An interview with his coach acknowledged that he understands this and will work for it. I hope he has the physical tools to do it. I understand he’s tall and lanky but on some of those tackles, he should be able to get behind his pads and use some leg drive to get at least an extra half yard, he really hasn’t shown he can do that. Hope he becomes really good at the route running/catch part of the game. Seems like his ceiling as a blocker is just to become adequate.