Week 2 GDT: Bears at Buccaneers

[Bigbear72]

5 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

You cant play "context" one way and not the other

Again, this all stems from most of you thinking this team was any good for some reason going into week 1

I can't speak for everyone. But you and I both know that performance Sunday was not acceptable in any world. Numbers can always be skew to fit whatever agenda one might have. If you want to support Fields then I get it. So do I. But let's not just make statements to being making statements.

[dafreak]

4 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

No this stems from thinking they would have a functional competent team, they did not show that at all in any fashion against the Packers. 

They did not, if anything the team has regressed.

[StLunatic88]

5 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

I can't speak for everyone. But you and I both know that performance Sunday was not acceptable in any world. Numbers can always be skew to fit whatever agenda one might have. If you want to support Fields then I get it. So do I. But let's not just make statements to being making statements.

Ive outlined multiple times around here what he needs to be better at. But its a whole lot of Cherry Picking going on this week because the entire sky is falling apparently, so I decided to play by those rules, because that seems to be the only way to do it around here. 

SO many didnt want to talk about "context" and the reasoning around how he got to his numbers last year, or even consider what would happen around his numbers this year, he just HAD to hit 3000 or 3500 or whatever the number of yards were that day. So Im pointing out how now the goalposts on those conversations have moved.

If you would like to have a nuanced conversation around his performance, Id be more than happy to, but I have seen VERY little of that around here this week.

[Nads786]

I don't think we can regressed based on one game. I'm willing to see this team out for the next 3-4 games and then make an assessment. By the first quarter of a season, you have a rough sketch of the strengths and weaknesses. 

I think we beat the Bucs and Fields has a good game. I think the defense will look horrible again because functionality they have no talent in the front four. A mix of rookies learning and veterans who are horrible. This defense was also one of the worst last year. 

The offense showed a real spark last year, that I think can be recaptured in the next 2-3 games. I still expect us to have a pretty poor record of 6-7 wins mainly won by creating turnovers and scoring points. We will not win unless we score over 20 points. 

[Nads786]

Just now, StLunatic88 said:

Ive outlined multiple times around here what he needs to be better at. But its a whole lot of Cherry Picking going on this week because the entire sky is falling apparently, so I decided to play by those rules, because that seems to be the only way to do it around here. 

SO many didnt want to talk about "context" and the reasoning around how he got to his numbers last year, or even consider what would happen around his numbers this year, he just HAD to hit 3000 or 3500 or whatever the number of yards were that day. So Im pointing out how now the goalposts on those conversations have moved.

If you would like to have a nuanced conversation around his performance, Id be more than happy to, but I have seen VERY little of that around here this week.

The biggest context is it's 1 game. Let's think about this in another way, what if we played the Chiefs in week 1 and this was the result, how would people feel then? Would we feel as down losing to Mahomes.

I think part of our frustration is we thought we were playing a bad team, but we actually played a mediocre team, one with good D and O lines. 

[StLunatic88]

1 minute ago, Nads786 said:

I think part of our frustration is we thought we were playing a bad team, but we actually played a mediocre team, one with good D and O lines. 

Yes, their Lines are still VERY good, and ours are not. I dont think Love is any good, but when you dont even pretend to touch him, hes going to look great as long as he still has functioning limbs. I still think the Packers are a very good defense, so do the Bucs, so Im not shocked if we struggle there. 

Fields talent from the 2nd half of last year didnt just disappear. We added more weapons, and the Line should theoretically be just as bad if not a bit better. So what is the very clear difference here? The Offensive Coordinator is doing something completely different (nearly exactly opposite) from what was working last year

[beardown3231]

19 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yes, their Lines are still VERY good, and ours are not. I dont think Love is any good, but when you dont even pretend to touch him, hes going to look great as long as he still has functioning limbs. I still think the Packers are a very good defense, so do the Bucs, so Im not shocked if we struggle there. 

Fields talent from the 2nd half of last year didnt just disappear. We added more weapons, and the Line should theoretically be just as bad if not a bit better. So what is the very clear difference here? The Offensive Coordinator is doing something completely different (nearly exactly opposite) from what was working last year

The talent you're referring to was mostly running ability. Due to that, it made his passing look a lot better. Unless they go back to that type of gameplan, I don't have high hopes for anybody in the offensive meetings

[Ty21]

54 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

When does "won't happen in one offseason" excuse stop? Poles has had 2 offseasons now and they're not at all closer to being competent

Don’t mistake me not being in the fetal position and sucking my thumb as a Poles defense. Poles, Eberflus, and Williams are all on the hot seat and Getsy is actually useless. This isn’t the first time his gameplan was pathetic. In fact, he hasn’t had an impressive gameplan yet. 
 

I still consider it only one off-season though. Year one inheriting no cap and limited draft picks doesn’t make for much of an offseason. 

[Ty21]

 

[Ty21]

Gordon to IR. No just throwing a club on it 

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Unless they go back to that type of gameplan, I don't have high hopes for anybody in the offensive meetings

The question is, why would we ever go away from that gameplan? It was Working!

Yes you need to evolve it some, but the basis of what works for Justin Fields is already proven. Which is why the clear issue right now is Luke Getsy

[beardown3231]

Just now, StLunatic88 said:

The question is, why would we ever go away from that gameplan? It was Working!

Yes you need to evolve it some, but the basis of what works for Justin Fields is already proven. Which is why the clear issue right now is Luke Getsy

I don't disagree at all, but maybe they don't believe that's a winning formula

[StLunatic88]

Just now, beardown3231 said:

I don't disagree at all, but maybe they don't believe that's a winning formula

Which is what is making doubt creep into my mind. If you came in knowing Justin Fields would be your QB (clearly the plan) and you can only impliment an offense meant for Rich Gannon...

Im a big Flus guy, I think he is a great leader of men (while I think the HITS thing is over blown) but if he cant either steer Getsy back to something that atleast compliments Fields, if not actually boosts him, then I have to worry about him and his ability to make the tough choices. Because if it is clearly a game plan issues (say we throw all the passes at or behind the LoS before the games are out of hand) and he wont move on from him, then he just doesnt have it. But thats not a decision on wither Flus or Getsy need to be gone that can be made yet.

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, Ty21 said:

Don’t mistake me not being in the fetal position and sucking my thumb as a Poles defense. Poles, Eberflus, and Williams are all on the hot seat and Getsy is actually useless. This isn’t the first time his gameplan was pathetic. In fact, he hasn’t had an impressive gameplan yet.
 

 

I actually don't think Poles is on the hot seat, I think he has been entrenched for a few seasons. That being said I think Eberflus and Getsy absolutely could be tossed out after this season. Getsy even mid-season if the offense continues to suck something fierce and he handcuffs Fields from running. 

The season isn't a waste yet, if they actually have Fields attacking and seeing if he can run a real offense then the main priority of the season can still be met. If there are still questions on that then the staff needs tossed, Poles can be as well for all I care. 

Quote

I still consider it only one off-season though. Year one inheriting no cap and limited draft picks doesn’t make for much of an offseason. 

I tend to agree with this logic as though. Technically there have been two off-seasons, yes, but the first one was actively breaking apart the previous regime's groups and getting rid of most of the expensive deals on the roster. They got rid of Mack, Roquan, ARob, etc and got rid of a host of other less notable guys. It was a tear down, and this was the first season of building back up. 

Intent was pretty obvious for both offseasons whether he was stripping the roster or adding players. I might not have agreed with the methods he went about it (such as draft choices) but intent was still notable. The roster wasn't going to be competitive in 2022 even if Poles tried to add to it rather than scrap it, so its hard to imagine that they would bounce back and be a really good team. 

[Bigbear72]

***Tinfoil hat alert***

What if Poles never really thought that Fields was the guy at all? What if the plan was to maneuver into a position to be able to draft a QB in next year's draft which by all accounts looks to be superior to what was available this year? I know it's a crazy thought but is it any less crazy than the way they are handling him and their playcalling?