Zukhyubern Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 If SP wants Caleb Williams, why wouldn't our #1 and Surtain do the trick for the #1 pick? The Bears should send back a 3rd or a 4th for Surtain. You can argue that PS2 is a top 20 player in the league, and you know what you are getting with him; you don't know what you are getting with Caleb Williams. The talent is freaky good, but the ego scares the crap out of me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, Zukhyubern said: Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? Zuk! Hope things have been going well! To answer your question, not surprised but very disappointed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said: If SP wants Caleb Williams, why wouldn't our #1 and Surtain do the trick for the #1 pick? The Bears should send back a 3rd or a 4th for Surtain. You can argue that PS2 is a top 20 player in the league, and you know what you are getting with him; you don't know what you are getting with Caleb Williams. The talent is freaky good, but the ego scares the crap out of me. Sorry but that’s a delusional homer take. PS2 is a great player but he’s also about to get expensive. No team was willing to offer 2 1sts last year for him because of that. Not because he isn’t great. And the only teams that offer were in the contender range. So we’re talking mid late 1sts. If you can get another team to pay 2 1sts to get PS2 then it’s a different scenario. But again contenders are the only team that consider it. Rebuilding teams won’t pay a higher price because of the timing of when PS2 gets expensive. Finally, CHI and Matt Eberflus run zone schemes a top 5 rate at 75%. So they're not likely valuing PS2 more than contenders. To even get in the door you need 3 1sts to *begin* the convo. And the thing is, it’s probably not enough. To be clear - 3 1sts isn't guaranteed to get it done from the 1.12. There may need to be more added to even get into the convo. No package for any 1.1 or 1.2 pick has gone for less than 3 1sts outside of the 1.10 as a known spot. PS2 couldn’t get 2 1sts in a market where he was the only elite CB available. And it can be argued there are more teams in the hunt for the top QB. Demand drives the market. So yes that’s wildly low. Edited February 1 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zukhyubern said: Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? IMO there's a massive drop between Williams/Maye and Daniels. Daniels may have separated himself from the next tier, but he's nowhere near Williams/Maye in terms of floor, and in terms of being ready to start. But no, it wouldn't surprise me, but it's also a 2-way street. Even though CHI has Fields, their OC hire strongly suggests they're locked into Caleb Williams at 1.1. WAS would be insane to pass up on Drake Maye. QB is their glaring hole long-term. If I were in CHI or WAS's shoes, I just make the pick and lock in my QB. In that scenario, I would be really opposed to trading up for Daniels. The more I watch, the more he's a guy who is being billed as the next dual threat, but I'm not sure he's close to the same athletic range as Lamar. It's not even a knock against Daniels per se - but Lamar's quickness & change of direction are elite. Which is a big reason why he avoids a lot of big hits while running the ball. For his frame, if you're not *that* twitchy or explosive, that's a massive problem. It's different if you're built like a tank (even then, there are risks - see A-Rich 2023 <but his ceiling is still insane, and what he showed demonstrates why ppl chase that skill profile>). It's going to be a debate with parties on both sides about trading up for a top pick, because of the cost - but there's no way I see Daniels on the same plane as Williams/Maye. And yes, likely 1 of those 3 doesn't work out - there are no guarantees, but there's 10x more risk in Daniel's skill set and profile than with Williams & Maye IMO. Hard pass on a trade up scenario there. Edited February 1 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, Zukhyubern said: Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? It wouldn't shock me at all and I get why he would. But I hope he doesn't. Especially if it's for Williams. It's just my opinion, but I think Caleb Williams is one of the most overhyped QB prospects I've seen in several years. He's small, plays exclusively out of the shotgun, plays in a one-read offense, and has a career college record of 4-9 against top 25 teams with a quarterback rating of 76.7 in those losses. Elite arm talent doesn't mean anything if you don't have it mentally, and I think the NFL is going to eat him alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said: If SP wants Caleb Williams, why wouldn't our #1 and Surtain do the trick for the #1 pick? The Bears should send back a 3rd or a 4th for Surtain. You can argue that PS2 is a top 20 player in the league, and you know what you are getting with him; you don't know what you are getting with Caleb Williams. The talent is freaky good, but the ego scares the crap out of me. With the requirements of a QB in Seans system Williams wouldn't be his 1st choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 hours ago, Broncofan said: Sorry but that’s a delusional homer take. PS2 is a great player but he’s also about to get expensive. No team was willing to offer 2 1sts last year for him because of that. Not because he isn’t great. And the only teams that offer were in the contender range. So we’re talking mid late 1sts. If you can get another team to pay 2 1sts to get PS2 then it’s a different scenario. But again contenders are the only team that consider it. Rebuilding teams won’t pay a higher price because of the timing of when PS2 gets expensive. Finally, CHI and Matt Eberflus run zone schemes a top 5 rate at 75%. So they're not likely valuing PS2 more than contenders. To even get in the door you need 3 1sts to *begin* the convo. And the thing is, it’s probably not enough. To be clear - 3 1sts isn't guaranteed to get it done from the 1.12. There may need to be more added to even get into the convo. No package for any 1.1 or 1.2 pick has gone for less than 3 1sts outside of the 1.10 as a known spot. PS2 couldn’t get 2 1sts in a market where he was the only elite CB available. And it can be argued there are more teams in the hunt for the top QB. Demand drives the market. So yes that’s wildly low. I'm not looking at this as a possibility to offer Pat and our first for #1. I know it won't happen. I'm just saying, perhaps it should. If you were drafting PS2 go now in the draft knowing what we know...he'd be top 5 pick. He was a top 10 pick. So the Bears getting Pat and the #12 overall...plus future #1s and anymore picks seems too risky for Caleb because he seems privileged, which could bust him. With Pat I know what I'm getting and he's worth the money. That is all I'm saying. I know that's not reality. And to be honest. I'm on the fence about Calrb. If we make this move, I hope he embraces Denver because he could own that town, and the Rockies..and I hope he can go toe to toe with Mahomes and Herbert. So I'm intrigued... And with Harbaugh in the division now, the Broncos may have to take the risk and do something radical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 10 hours ago, Zukhyubern said: Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? I actually would because he's never done it before. Payton likes football players that can fill multiple roles in teams. I think he now sees the holes on this team and wants to have different options on offense. Obviously a QB could open more options but also in this case, would take away chances to draft a TE or a WR that he would still need with said QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 10 hours ago, Zukhyubern said: Would anyone here actually be surprised to see Payton sell the farm for any of the top 3 quarterbacks? I think I would. We've got too many holes and too few impact players to be serious contenders regardless of who our QB is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 42 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said: And with Harbaugh in the division now, the Broncos may have to take the risk and do something radical. Why would that make any difference in how Sean goes about building a team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Allbright on twitter is throwing out names like Jimmy G and Michael Pratt as additions to the QB room this year. The only way I'm fine with Jimmy G coming in is if he's a tank commander. That means starting in the offseason, we trade away players like Sutton, Bolles, and Simmons, and then we trade down in the draft to accumulate more picks. Then just let Jimmy G start until his body breaks down, (like it always does) and then put in Stidham or the rookie and hope for a high draft pick next year. I'm saying this because, IMO, the FO bringing in Jimmy to start lets me know they're not serious about competing next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 13 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said: Allbright on twitter is throwing out names like Jimmy G and Michael Pratt as additions to the QB room this year. The only way I'm fine with Jimmy G coming in is if he's a tank commander. That means starting in the offseason, we trade away players like Sutton, Bolles, and Simmons, and then we trade down in the draft to accumulate more picks. Then just let Jimmy G start until his body breaks down, (like it always does) and then put in Stidham or the rookie and hope for a high draft pick next year. I'm saying this because, IMO, the FO bringing in Jimmy to start lets me know they're not serious about competing next season. JimmyG is a hard pass. There's no salary that makes it worthwhile. As limited as Russ was and that killed our O, JimmyG's limitations are different, but equally restrictive. This is where it's important to realize that Allbright isn't plugged in to the FO anymore. Thankfully in this case. Pratt actually makes sense as a R3-4 pick. But JimmyG is a disaster play if you are actually serious about trying to run a good O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 If we trade back and accumulate day 2/3 picks I would not be against spending one of them on Rattler/Pratt/Travis. My gut says all 3 will occupy roster spots for a long time and 1 will be a top 15 starter in this league. I’m just not sure which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 11 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: If we trade back and accumulate day 2/3 picks I would not be against spending one of them on Rattler/Pratt/Travis. My gut says all 3 will occupy roster spots for a long time and 1 will be a top 15 starter in this league. I’m just not sure which one. I'm not sure about any one of those guys being a top 15 starter, but I do think we're about to see 7-8 guys this year stick around the league as backups to some level of starters. It's not a stretch to say there were 5+ guys with absolutely zero ability to be even backup-level who actually started NFL games this year. Tim Boyle, Jaren Hall, Tommy Devito, Tyson Bagent and Clayton Tune spring immediately to mind, although to be fair 4 of them are rookies (but I doubt they stick beyond the next year or 2). But even guys like PJ Walker, Brett Rypien, Mitch Trubisky & Brian Hoyer shouldn't be backups. And LOL at ATL thinking Desmond Ridder / Tyler Heinecke were the answer (and I'd have to say LV would be nuts to think Deputy Farva, AKA Aiden O'Connell, is their future). Again, I'm not sure anyone is truly elite-ceiling except Williams & Maye, but on the flip side, seeing 7-8 2024 draft QB's become guys who carve out 6+ years careers, even if half of them are backups / fringe starters, wouldn't be surprising in the least. But that's a big diff from being an org-changing QB, too. If we don't trade up (which again, seems more likely given that I'm not even sure CHI/WAS are interested, and the price involved with multiple competitors), I would have no problem diving into R3 with the Pratt-level tier. He does fit what Payton looks for. It's not surprising to hear the scouts spoke to him a couple of times at the Senior Bowl. It also wouldn't prevent them from being aggressive in 2025 if Pratt didn't show out in his year of development (almost certainly would be a vet starting most of 2024 in this scenario). Edited February 1 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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