MacReady Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, incognito_man said: The Julio in the red zone is now national media talk 😂 @Outpost31 @Packerraymond I can only hope Rodgers not throwing to running backs turns into national media talk next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrid Josher Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 19 hours ago, deltarich87 said: New coach immediately breathing life into the Bears in yr1. About to go from last place to division champs And a cheap ascending QB, a few decent drafts still on rookie contracts, and a Mack trade that has been only upside so far (the lost picks won't start to impact them until next year and will then hurt them for potentially 5-10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Pool said: I never said he was elite. I was using an example of which statement were true. One statement that you said, one that I didn't say. To prove a point. Pass blocking? Really? They won't ask him to do that and that is obviously not part of his skill set. I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. I said he was an average player, and I stand by that. If you want to argue the merits of average versus above-average, go right ahead. But I have no interest in doing so. My point is exactly what I thought he was before the season. I thought he was an interesting gadget player, and he's playing within an offensive scheme that makes him look better than he actually is. Right now, he's playing in just under 46% of the offensive snaps. If he's more than an average player, wouldn't you want him to be playing more snaps? 12 hours ago, Pool said: Trubisky. Again with the hyperbole. No Bears fans here were "swooning" over him. None. Ok well maybe @Superman(DH23). But you'll have to let that one slide. He's more optimistic than most Bears fans posters here. Nothing but love Sup. Certainly not me and you should know that better than most. If you're saying the Bears can't compete for championships with him as QB I'd say they are more than well on their way to proving you and a lot of other people wrong. He doesn't have to be Aaron Rodgers for this team to win and right now he is more than adequate and continues to improve. I seem to remember Bears' fans were quick to point out that the Buccaneers game performance as evidence that Trubisky has turned the corner in that NFL General thread. Maybe I'm misremembering, but it got incredibly quiet after the Patriots game, where I think Outpost bumped the thread up. You're right, he doesn't have to be Aaron Rodgers. But he does need to be better. You talk about the Patriots and Ravens as teams who won with a superior defense and good enough QB play, but I'd argue that Joe Flacco was playing substantially better in the playoffs than Trubisky is playing right now. Denver is really the only time we've seen where a smothering defense really was the lone reason for a Super Bowl win. Either way, that's not a very good track record. 17 hours ago, Pool said: Gushing praise? How about just a little praise? So far you don't seem to be able to do that. Their defense is elite. I don't think there is any arguing that at this point and teams can and do win championships with elite defenses and mediocre offenses. Ravens and Broncos are prime examples of that. I would agree with you, the Bears' D is playing at an elite level. 3rd in opponents PPG, 3rd in opponents 3rd down conversion rate, 3rd in sacks,and 1st in takeaways. Yeah, they absolutely are elite. In fact, I don't think you'd find me arguing with you at all on that. I'm not saying that you can't win with an elite defense and mediocre offense, but it's far less likely. Going back to 2000, the only teams you could really make the argument for would be Denver in 2016. Even when the Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2013, Joe Flacco was playing arguably the best ball of his career. He may be a mediocre QB, but he was playing fantastic football in the playoffs. Just for fun facts, going back over the last 10 Super Bowl champions, only TWO had a starting QB with a lower QB rating in the playoffs than Trubisky does this year. They were Peyton Manning in 2016 and Ben Roethilsburger in 2009. Again, not great odds. Not insurmountable, but not great odds. 17 hours ago, Pool said: OL needs improvement. Agree here. Lot of youth on the line and we're starting a rookie. Lots of room for improvement for Massie, Daniels, and Whitehair. As a whole though they are more than serviceable enough to get the job done. Corners. Again, I agree here. But are they a weakness? I'd disagree with you there. Again, they are more than serviceable enough to get the job done. Amukamara is probably the weakest link here but Fuller and Callahan are solid. Amos is again solid but replaceable (a point I will concede you were right about in a previous discussion) but Eddie Jackson is lights out and shaping up to be an all pro. As a whole their secondary is still above average. And that's what I've said from the get go. The OL could stand to be improved, and most of those improvements are going to come from your young OL. Could they be the answer? Possibly, I just choose not to assume they are. They're serviceable, but do you really want just a serviceable OL when your QB is on shaky ground? I personally don't. I'll go on the record now as saying they aren't what I'd consider a weakness, but they're far from a strength. The bigger issue I have is that I think they look a LOT better than they actually are because of that pass rush. Amukamara is 29 years old and he's a lower body injury away from being moved to safety. It wasn't like he was a burner early in his career, but corners tend to fall off the cliff around this time. And once the legs go, their play goes with them. It's time to start thinking about life after Amukamara. As for Fuller, I don't recall where I saw it but I saw many Bears' fans feel that they should have let Fuller walk when the Packers threw the offer sheet at them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could have sworn I had seen Beras' fans say that. Amos was a guy who played reasonably well enough to not replace, but not someone you're jumping to pay big bucks to. Honestly, not a whole lot different than HHCD earlier. And I've never once doubted Eddie Jackson that I can recall. The talent was obvious, and he was an early Day 2 pick had he not broke his leg his last year at Alabama. Right now, they need to get another pass rusher opposite of Khalil Mack, add more depth to the DL, and continue to help the secondary out particularly the corners. Without a first or second round pick, that's going to be a bit difficult. 18 hours ago, Pool said: I get you probably hate the Bears. It's in our blood to hate our rivals. But to dismiss the teams accomplishments after what they have done this year is a bit silly imo. They're proving themselves more and more week in and week out. Their 8-3 and just won 3 division games in 10 days. One with a backup QB. That doesn't impress you? And I still don't see how any of these things you've listed means the Bears can't compete for a championship (notice I didn't say win) for the next few years and I honestly don't understand how you as a seemingly intelligent football fan would argue that they can't. Will they? Well that's to be determined. But it certainly appears far more likely that they will rather than they won't. I don't hate the Bears. I'm too young to really remember the earlier years. I think the Packers are something like 40-18 against the Bears dating back to 1990 or something like that. If anything, I probably hate the Vikings more so all things considered. You say I'm hating, but I'd say I'm taking more cautious approach. Right now, the Bears are 8-3 with by far the lowest SOS by over 30 points more than any other team. The Bears SOV (.360) is lower than any other currently playoff bound teams except the Chargers and Vikings. And if you subscribe to the close win/loss theory, they're +2 in terms of close wins. I think they're good, but they're clearly a tier below both the Saints and Rams for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillparsi1 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Is it better for us if Carolina or Seattle wins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, chillparsi1 said: Is it better for us if Carolina or Seattle wins? seattle. otherwise we cant catch carolina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Everybody's talking about Trubisky and Mahomes, but Mayfield has played for a really bad head coach and an interim head coach and he hasn't looked like a rookie in his rookie year. He really hasn't had a dreadful game all year. Chargers are a really good defense and he had a bad overall game there, but he didn't look lost or half as bad as Goff/Trubisky looked in their rookie years. He's also had some really dominant performances where he's looked like a seasoned veteran, too. Mike McCarthy might push his own way out of Green Bay. The Browns look like a legitimate head coaching vacancy for the first time in a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Damarious Randall with an interception. I know he's a head case and everything, but he still had a knack for interceptions. So does the guy we traded him for I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltarich87 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Randall handed the ball to Hue after the INT too lol. Amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, deltarich87 said: Randall handed the ball to Hue after the INT too lol. Amazing I need a video of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 reading the "defense wins championships" argument. Well, 40ish percent of a team's quality is defined by their defense. If we assume that one of the top 5 teams wins the SB each year, it's really hard to be one of the top 5 teams without a good defense, or at the very least a hot defense in the playoffs. You would need to have an all time offense by such a huge margin that it's just super unlikely. It's really hard to be SO good on offense to make up for a mediocre defense when all the teams you are playing are at least solid enough on offense to expose your mediocre D. I don't think you can be mediocre on offense and good on defense though. You really can't be an inept scoring team and give up very few points and hope to win a superbowl. Defense and Offense win championships. It's not fun to say, but it's the most correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltarich87 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I need a video of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, skibrett15 said: I don't think you can be mediocre on offense and good on defense though. You really can't be an inept scoring team and give up very few points and hope to win a superbowl. This has happened multiple times though. 2000 Ravens, 85 Bears. Atrocious offenses. There has never been a time an atrocious defense has won the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, skibrett15 said: reading the "defense wins championships" argument. Regarding the defense wins, or at least helps to win, championships issue, it might might be time to remind Packer fans about the Packer defensive performances during the past 7 playoff losses: -493 yards (Atlanta 44-21) -368 yards (Arizona, 26-20) -397 yards (Seattle, 28-22) -381 yards (San Francisco, 23-20) -579 yards (San Francisco, 45-31) -420 yards (New York Giants, 37-20) -531 yards (Arizona, 51-45) So the Packers D has given up 44 or more points in 3 of ARod's playoff losses. By contrast, Tom Brady is approaching 300 starts in New England and I don't think the Patriots D has ever given up 44 points in one of his starts. Ever. Not even against the Pat Mahomes and the Chiefs earlier this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Malfatron said: 1 hour ago, chillparsi1 said: Is it better for us if Carolina or Seattle wins? seattle. otherwise we cant catch carolina Carolina. Puts Seattle behind us. Otherwise both teams are still in front of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Just now, TheOnlyThing said: By contrast, Tom Brady is approaching 300 starts in New England and I don't think the Patriots D has ever given up 44 points in one of his starts. Ever. Not even against the Pat Mahomes and the Chiefs earlier this season. I hate liking your stuff because of how often and to the extent we disagree, but you're absolutely right here. Tom Brady is not greater than Rodgers. He flat out isn't. The most Brady's defense has ever given up was 41. Loss. They gave up 38 once. Loss. They gave up 33 once. Loss. The largest playoff deficit Brady has EVER overcome in the playoffs has been 31. The Patriots defense has given up 31 points or more only 4 times in 37 playoff games. It's defense. Bill Belichick has always provided a defense that outperforms its talent. The Patriots should be seen as proof that defense wins Championships, and yet Brady gets all the glory and it makes me sick. There are 10 quarterbacks active right now that could have won at least three of Brady's five Super Bowl wins. Edited November 25, 2018 by Outpost31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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