The 2018 Kirk Cousins Megathread

[JDBrocks]

 

[Ozzy]

26 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

I understand that you aren't a Kirk fan, but your argument is nonsense. 

You state that you would take Eli or Flacco (seriously....Flacco) who have not done anything over the last several years to make it appear that they are better QB's than Cousins. You use success a long time ago to say that they are better than Cousins because Cousins hasn't won big games.

Then, you list young guys who haven't won anything at all because of upside. 

You show the ability to make excuses for anyone except Cousins to support your argument. I understand you were probably looking for shock value, but it is not an objective look at all.

I actually like Kirk Cousins coming out of Michigan State, but as a solid QB starter, not a super star NFL player.  But yes I would take many unproven yet more talented QBs over Cousins potentially, or proven yet on the down turn of their career QBs over Cousins as well.  But sure it is a better QB situation than what we had before, but not by that much.  Yes again better than Keenum, Teddy or Bradford...

 

Yes I would take an old Drew Bees for 2 years 50 Million a year over Cousins, I would do that all day long without question.  Yes I would take Jimmy Garoppolo over Cousins without any question what so ever...  Let us not even talk about Carson Wentz or the current QBs in this years draft, all of who I think are a little overrated and no one really stands out above the next, but would I take Rosen, Darnold, Allen or Mayfield over Cousins, potentially yes.  

 

There is little to no doubt in my mind that there are 15 QBs out there better than Cousins, and sure that is not bad, but for a team wanting to win a Super Bowl.  It is not exactly good.  Sure some I listed originally might be outliers but can have the argument for sure.

 

The Vikings with Jim McMahon, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Gus Frerotte, Bret Favre, Matt Cassel, Sam Bradford, Case Keenum.  Some were brought in to be backups of course, some to be the starter.  But never was a huge fan of just getting this tailing off veteran to solve your QB issues, yes Cousins is not tailing off vet by any means but not sure he is this yet to peak QB either.  Maybe just not being lucky as an organization overall, who knows, but would be nice to actually have a dude at that position for once. Not sure Cousins is exactly dude material at QB but better than what was here last year I suppose....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Purplexing]

53 minutes ago, Purplexing said:

No one on FF Vikings knows anything about salary cap space and allocations by position?  I'm shocked!  Shocked, I tell you!

Now I do.... but only for 2013, per USA TODAY:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/09/13/nfl-salary-position-breakdown-opening-day-roster/2808773/

per the 32 pie charts; QB percentages of team salaries.

AZ ; 5.05

ATL; 8.51

BAL; 5.99

Buff; 3.47

CAR; 5.99

CHI; 8.54

CIN; 2.08

CLE; 2.95

DAL; 11.58

DEN; 13.35

DET; 17.68

GB; 9.64

Hou; 9.38

IND; 6.91

JAX; 5.90

KC; 7.79

MIA; 4.64

MIN; 5.34

NE; 11.27

NO; 14.44

NYG; 17.73

NYJ; 11.57

OAK; 4.04

Phil; 9.12

Pitt; 12.33

StL; 10.75

SD; 12.96

SF; 2.59

SEA; 1.11

TB; 8.60

Tenn; 4.36

WAS; 5.88

NFL TOT; 261.54

NFL AVG; 8.17

Seattle's pie chart slice for QBs was sooooo thin, the number wasn't visible and had to be determined by subtracting all other positions from 100%.  Yes, it was 1.11% for 2013.

Minnesota was at 5.34% in 2013, which is 65% of the 8.17% average.

Currently, all Vikings QBs are expected to cost $30M(?), which is  17.3% of the $173M cap.  From memory; correct me if I'm wrong.

Previously, in 2013, Minnesota (5.3%) allocated less than the NFL average (8.2%) toward QBs salaries.

Minnesota is allocating 17.3% of their 2018 cap to QBs (assuming $30M total and $173M cap).

Paying average percentages of salaries for a QB may or may not allow a team to succeed, win more than 8 games, and advance to the playoffs, and win playoff games. 

I suspect winning teams pay more than the NFL average % of salary to their QBs.  Too many numbers to track down to sustain that claim.  But it seems intuitive.

 

[vike daddy]

''

Edited March 15, 2018 by vike daddy

[Purplexing]

41 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

We all have a little trepidation.

Some have triple the trepidation of others.

Rick the Trepidation Purveyor.

[gopherwrestler]

I’ll take our two QB’s....

[Krauser]

1 hour ago, JDBrocks said:

My major point, which VD pointed out, is that this was a huge gamble, that only pays off with a trip to the SB.

I guess so, yeah, but the whole thing is a huge gamble that only pays off with a trip to the SB. 

The Minnesota Vikings team is a franchise worth $2.4 billion (Forbes, 2017) competing against 31 other franchises worth up to $4.8 billion (according to Forbes, the Cowboys), trying to win one of the world’s most watched sporting events (global Super Bowl TV viewership is roughly 170 million, of which a little over 100 million is American). They play in a stadium that cost roughly $1 billion with an annual payroll for players of nearly $200 million plus an operating budget of something like $100 million, with annual revenues in the hundreds of millions too. 

In that context, spending a marginal (above replacement value, say Keenum) $5-10M per year on Cousins in expectation of locking in better QB play is no more of a gamble than spending that same amount on any other player, who could improve or regress, get hurt or arrested, win an award or quit on the team and himself. 

I’m sure some fans still think the Vikings are a failure because they haven’t won it all yet, but the team has clearly developed into a legitimate contender. They’re 32-16 over the past 3 years, and would’ve probably made the playoffs 3 years straight if it wasn’t for the 2016 OL injury fest.  

The Vikings are very good, but their best players are in or very near their primes. This is not a great time for them to be relying on Teddy’s knee not to fall apart again, or for Keenum not to turn back into a pumpkin, or for a rookie QB drafted late in the 1st round to maybe develop into a Cousins level starter circa 2020 or 2021. If they put the eggs in the wrong QB basket and that doesn’t turn out so well, the team pays all of their great players for another year of their primes and has nothing much to show for it, plus they still have to sort out the QB situation next year, with who knows with what options realistically available by that point. 

It’s not like the Vikings competitive window is about to close, but it’s open now, so there’s no time to waste in filling any remaining signficant holes and making the team as competitive as they can this year without hurting their ability to contend next year and beyond. Yes, that means paying the exorbitant going rate for a legitimate starting QB, but having a legitimate starting QB makes the team considerably better, right now. And it’s hard to know how they would have gotten a better return for that money. What other move would have a comparable impact, this year?

I have a lot of confidence in Spielman and Zimmer. Almost all of their roster moves have worked out at least reasonably well, including at QB for the last few years, and most of the biggest failures have happened for reasons out of their control (injuries to Teddy, Sam, Sharrif, the entire 2016 OL, etc). I think they deserve credit for that, and I’m willing to give them enough latitude to support this decision even it isn’t exactly how I hoped it would work out.

They need Cousins to stay healthy, knock on wood, and play to the level he’s maintained for 3 years. If that happens, the Vikings will be odds on favorites to return to the playoffs every year from now to 2020. Can’t ask for more than that. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Krauser

[Cearbhall]

13 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

I’ll take our two QB’s....

Given that menu of choices, sure. The Vikings did have  a larger menu board from which to assemble their top to QBs. The current leadership has generally made sound decisions. There have been misses but not more than most other front offices. Lets hope the QB decision doesn't end up being one of their misses. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt until we start seeing some game. I am convinced that Cousins at $28M is a far better option than Bradford at $20M.

[skywindO2]

59 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

And if you actually think about this part, he is giving up MILLIONS of dollars. It doesn’t matter what type of person you are. $1 Million dollars is still a lot of money. Remember, this is guy still to this day, drives around a Van he bought from his grandma. 

 

He is coming here win. He wants to make another big splash his next contract. How will he do that? Buy winning. It’s why that guaranteed money means nothing. If we signed him to a 3 year, $28M/yr average with $18m average a year guaranteed, it wouldn’t matter. He would love that contract out, because we wouldn’t cut that much dead money. You don’t cut players like that. 

 

I actually love the fact he came here to win.

That's one way to put it..  

[SteelKing728]

a month ago it seemed like a pipedream that Cousins would be a Viking. I just assumed he'd go to the Jets, Browns or Broncos.

Today, it's a great feeling. I'm glad Cousins is here and I hope he finally gets us over the hump. We're due. In fact, we're probably overdue. 

So Captain Kirk, lets right this ship and bring home a Lombardi! Skol!

[JDBrocks]

Good. We’ve established that the Vikings needed to gamble on the QB position, and did so in the biggest way that the could this offseason. They paid the best available free agent QB a ton of money in an attempt to win a super bowl.

But to say that we as fans can’t ask for anything more than to be a playoff team for the next three years isn’t right. I don’t buy that for a second. That’s basically saying that being the ‘13-‘15 Bengals is good enough. 

Im not saying that they could have done anything more than they are. This is the move that will define this regime in my opinion, and not getting to the Super Bowl with the talent that they have acquired and developed is a failure in my opinion.

[Eric dunn]

 

 

[JDBrocks]

 

[gopherwrestler]

 

[SemperFeist]

Looks like the head coach knocked back a couple of sodas at dinner