Jets, Colts Swap 1st Round Picks

[Dashing202]

22 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Depends what you mean by "high". Most folks around here think he'll go in the top fifteen, whether they think he deserves it, or not.

The Jets shouldn't try drafting a QB high because the Jets are bad at drafting QBs? That's...a really weird argument. And the last QB they took in the first happened like two GMs ago, didn't it?

If they went 9-7 it would have been much harder for them to move up to #3, and pushed their rebuilding efforts even further back. And yes Darnold or Mayfield (if they pan out), would change the Jets--particularly since they are much younger than McCown, and most scouts see more potential in them. You realize both of those statements are true, right? 

That's pretty much it, right there. And for what it's worth, I totally agree with them on that. They also may realize that the Browns could do something stupid at #1 (which, in my opinion, would be drafting Allen), or the Giants could do something weird, like drafting Barkley. So...if you have Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield (or Allen, depending) graded pretty closely together, moving up to #3 makes a lot of sense. It didn't even cost them that much. 

" weird to you"

Lol so your saying the jets are good at picking qbs . 

And you missed my point on the 9-7 argument . 

[lancerman]

1 minute ago, Kip Smithers said:

If the Giants are as terrible as you say they are then they will be right back in this position next year. 

The last two years have coincided with the o-line regressing to pathetic levels. Even Odell cant even overcome that. Give him a competent o-line and you’ll see results improve 

Being honest, even if they completely repair the team...

1. How long will it take?

2. How long is Eli viable?

It's a lot easier to get the QB and build the team around him, than to build the team up and then try to find the QB. If you have someone you think is the guy, just get him, Eli isn't lasting out a rebuild.

[Kip Smithers]

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

Being honest, even if they completely repair the team...

1. How long will it take?

2. How long is Eli viable?

It's a lot easier to get the QB and build the team around him, than to build the team up and then try to find the QB. If you have someone you think is the guy, just get him, Eli isn't lasting out a rebuild.

First off, who said it’s a lot easier to get the QB? If it that easy you wouldn’t see merely above avg QBs getting paid heavily?

As for your questions, the quickest way to rebuild is the trenches. Building around the QB to keep him upright, which is easier than getting your QB. Eli has some years left, how much? We will see. 

Building the o-line should be the priority imo. Drew Brees has been able to last because he has a o-line that protects him very well. Derek Carr made a huge statistical leap because he had a great line. Dak stepped in to league as a rookie and shined? And why? Sorry this notion that we have to take a QB is silly.

[Nabbs4u]

14 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Sorry this notion that we have to take a QB is silly

Have to take, No. In the Giants best interest past 2018, absolutely! 

Short/long term immediate impact player : Barkley

Most crucial player to the Improvement of Eli's 2018 Season/career: Nelson

Overall best interest of the 2019-29 NYG: Rookie FQBOTF

[JaguarCrazy2832]

I feel like I'm in the vast minority in saying this but teams that have poor OLs probably shouldn't invest so heavily on RB in the draft even if its Barkley. I know we did last year but honestly that draft was way worse at the top compared to this one. No good OL or remaining DL high, 7 of the next 9 were RB/WR/QB too. If someone like Indy/NYG takes Barkley i hope their next picks are OL

[BleedTheClock]

13 hours ago, Dashing202 said:

Pretty good ? And reigns sucks 

Except that he doesn't. He's very good in-ring and below average on the mic. That equals out to pretty good. Just because the storyline sucks doesn't mean he sucks. WWE fans latch on to anything that can make them seem edgy & kewl. The cool thing to do nowadays is hate Roman Reigns.

 

I'd like to know how many people that watch Josh Allen tape EXTENSIVELY hate him. I'm willing to bet it's not many. Most people that throw draft opinions out on here watch a minimal amount of film and it's easy to tell based on the wildly inaccurate opinions. The Josh Allen haters are bandwagoning on the hate. He's not a perfect QB prospect by any stretch, but this isn't Christian Hackenberg.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I'd like to know how many people that watch Josh Allen tape EXTENSIVELY hate him. 

As a prospect, I can't stand him.

Hate is a strong word, so I try to refrain from using it, especially with people, but you get the gist. 

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, MWil23 said:

As a prospect, I can't stand him.

Hate is a strong word, so I try to refrain from using it, especially with people, but you get the gist. 

He's big every physical tool...ridiculous physical tools. Everyone knows that, so let's just put that aside right now.

 

Here's what I like about him:

1. He's a leader. His teammates love him and his coaches rave about his work ethic. Well-spoken kid that won't get into trouble.

2. He's smart. Comes from a pro style offense and is capable of reading the defense, looking off a safety, and making full-field reads and coming off of his #1 target.

3. His misses are "safe." He rarely misses into traffic. If it's an out route, he misses high and outside instead of low (LB INT) and inside (CB INT). He doesn't throw a lot of WTF INT's.

4. Pocket manipulation. He doesn't just rely on being a superb athlete to create. He knows how to set rushers up to come up the field so he can step into his throws. Underrated trait.

5. Played among chaos every snap. That Wyoming team was atrocious. Like all-time bad. He didn't crumble under the pressure and maintained composure and leadership every week.

 

Here's what I don't like about him:

1. He's inaccurate and will miss some easy throws.

 

 

There is way more to like about Allen than there is to dislike about him. Accuracy is important, which is why he's my 4th rated QB. But his poor completion percentage is not nearly as alarming as some are making it out to be. He isn't inaccurate on 44% of his throws. It's probably more like 8%. His team is terrible. He threw away a ton of passes. The pro style concepts he faced meant he wasn't going to get easy checkdowns and bubble screens like Mayfield or these other spread QB's have. They were a running team that took shots off of play action down the field. You're not going to complete a great percentage of those throws, especially when your OL is straight garbage. I'm not saying he's some stud with elite accuracy, but there are other major factors as to why he didn't complete a high percentage of his passes. I'd argue no QB in this class would have completed 60% of their passes in Wyoming's scheme. It's built around big passing plays, not dink & dunk.

 

Whoever gets Allen is taking a risk. But whoever takes Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield is also getting a risk. No QB is a sure-thing and especially in this draft, no QB is without flaws. Allen's is probably the most concerning because accuracy is so important, but I've seen people call him a 3rd-4th round pick. That's hilarious to me. There's a 30-35% chance he becomes an elite QB in the NFL in my opinion. Those are pretty good odds and I think you take those odds if you need a QB. Because if Allen gets his accuracy dialed in a little more, he's going to be an unstoppable monster.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

He's big every physical tool...ridiculous physical tools. Everyone knows that, so let's just put that aside right now.

Agreed

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Here's what I like about him:

1. He's a leader. His teammates love him and his coaches rave about his work ethic. Well-spoken kid that won't get into trouble.

Pretty much any 1st round QB will have this said about him, aside from perhaps JFF and Ryan Leaf, although I remember people raving about Johnny's "mentality", "competitive attitude", etc. It made me want to throw up.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

2. He's smart. Comes from a pro style offense and is capable of reading the defense, looking off a safety, and making full-field reads and coming off of his #1 target.

Unless there's pressure, where he completes an embarrassing 39% of his throws under pressure.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

3. His misses are "safe." He rarely misses into traffic. If it's an out route, he misses high and outside instead of low (LB INT) and inside (CB INT). He doesn't throw a lot of WTF INT's.

No, he just throws a bunch of radar balls nowhere near his intended target.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

4. Pocket manipulation. He doesn't just rely on being a superb athlete to create. He knows how to set rushers up to come up the field so he can step into his throws. Underrated trait.

I won't disagree with this.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

5. Played among chaos every snap. That Wyoming team was atrocious. Like all-time bad. He didn't crumble under the pressure and maintained composure and leadership every week.

I won't disagree with this either, but at the same time, if he's not capable of staring down the gun barrel and making throws under pressure, he won't last long. If he's so great at reading defenses, maybe he should read that pre-snap and decide where to throw the ball and where to slide protection.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Here's what I don't like about him:

1. He's inaccurate and will miss some easy throws.

And that's an absolute deal breaker for me. It's the equivalent of going on a first date with a beautiful girl and her saying the line "after I got out of prison for manslaughter".

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

 

There is way more to like about Allen than there is to dislike about him. Accuracy is important, which is why he's my 4th rated QB. But his poor completion percentage is not nearly as alarming as some are making it out to be. He isn't inaccurate on 44% of his throws. It's probably more like 8%. His team is terrible. He threw away a ton of passes. The pro style concepts he faced meant he wasn't going to get easy checkdowns and bubble screens like Mayfield or these other spread QB's have. They were a running team that took shots off of play action down the field. You're not going to complete a great percentage of those throws, especially when your OL is straight garbage. I'm not saying he's some stud with elite accuracy, but there are other major factors as to why he didn't complete a high percentage of his passes. I'd argue no QB in this class would have completed 60% of their passes in Wyoming's scheme. It's built around big passing plays, not dink & dunk.

That's fine. Matthew Stafford played in a similar scheme at UGA and was able to show major progression over his three years in college. What concerns me the most about Allen is that he plateaued and never really improved. Potential at some point is all you'll have if you don't improve on it.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Whoever gets Allen is taking a risk.

If they draft him Top 5 or Top 10, they could be riding their entire career on a project/raw QB who never showed signs of improving and is betting on something that hasn't happened since Brett Favre...a QB who will have major NFL success completing 55-56% of his passes in college. Stafford showed progression and Cutler was the definition of an average QB in the NFL.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

But whoever takes Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield is also getting a risk. No QB is a sure-thing and especially in this draft, no QB is without flaws. Allen's is probably the most concerning because accuracy is so important,

We definitely agree. This sentence is my thought as well.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

but I've seen people call him a 3rd-4th round pick. That's hilarious to me.

We're talking about guys like Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel that go top half of the first round. Allen will be a Top 10 pick for sure.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

There's a 30-35% chance he becomes an elite QB in the NFL in my opinion.

I'd say 1 out of 5, with a 60% chance that he busts and a 20% chance he's a flawed gunslinger like Jay Cutler.

6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Those are pretty good odds and I think you take those odds if you need a QB. Because if Allen gets his accuracy dialed in a little more, he's going to be an unstoppable monster.

The "If" in regards to accuracy is a dealbreaker for me when evaluating a QB. Just my opinion.

[TheKillerNacho]

I can't remember the last time a QB with accuracy issues made something of himself at the NFL level. Having all the other tools is kinda irrelevant if you can't get the ball where you want to get it.

[goldfishwars]

There's a difference between overpaying to get your guy and overpaying to get someone you can't know will be there. 

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I can't remember the last time a QB with accuracy issues made something of himself at the NFL level. Having all the other tools is kinda irrelevant if you can't get the ball where you want to get it.

Agreed.

Jay Cutler is the closest at 56% in college.

Matthew Stafford is also an example, but his junior year he was 61%.

Brett Favre is the last guy to be an enigma at this, completing somewhere around 52%-53% in college...and that was a different era as well.

[Rockice_8]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:31 AM, BillsGuy82 said:

I would be ecstatic lol.. No need to panic and we're definitely not making a deal til draft day now imo.

Denver may not even go QB with Keenum on board.

I'm actually lol at the Jets for this deal. They have holes everywhere and will be adding a QB who likely won't start. 

If the QB is ready he'll start and why would you LOL.  If it's a franchise QB I'd give up the next five 2nd rounders to have one and so would Buffalo.  

The Jets do not have holes everywhere either.  Their secondary is looking solid, the DL is decent as is the OL.  They could use a pass catching weapon on offense and pass rusher sure but holes everywhere is a bit of a stretch.  Plus their cap situation is still excellent moving forward.  Sounds like you're just mad really that the Jets have a shot at a franchise QB and you'll be possibly starting Nathan Peterman.

[Rockice_8]

Win win for both.  Colts get extra picks to protect Luck and rebuild the OL and defense and Jets get a shot at a franchise QB.  An extra 2nd for a shot at a QB is well worth it.  People need to stop referencing the trade chart.

[bigbadbuff23835]