Patriots trade WR Brandon Cooks to Rams

[SSG]

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Like he won when he traded 28 sacks in 2 years Chandler Jones for what turned into Joe Thuney? 

New England has had 2 top 5 defenses and made it to multiple Super Bowls without Chandler Jones.  The goal of their trade wasn't to replace his production with another player, it was to unload a guy who they weren't going to be able to afford.  Chandler Jones is a great player but he's one of the 5 highest paid defenders in the NFL and frankly New England hasn't missed him for one single second.  

That trade was a sure fire win and GREAT for both teams.  Arizona got the elite edge rusher they wanted and New England unloaded a guy whom they weren't going to be a able to afford to spend over 16 1/2  million a year on.  They got more than the comp pick they'd have received when he would have left in UFA and drafted a huge contributor on their line who's started every game since being drafted.  Without Chandler, the following season they had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL and won a Super Bowl so its hard to say they missed him.  

[Dr LBC]

8 minutes ago, Supersuavesky said:

That's the problem; It didn't make any sense.

 

There's one thing to say he didn't know the playbook but routes didn't seem to be the problem. He just seems to.... Disappear for long stretches. Goff spread the ball around pretty well for a young QB. If your open he can consistently find you but for some reason Watkins only flashed a few times. There were plays where you said 'That's what we were expecting from him' but they were too scattered to justify paying him big money.

I think the issue is/was that - and perhaps rightfully so - when you're that 1st-WR-off-the-board, Top 10 pick that he was, the measuring stick that you're going to be held up against is that Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson type WR1 who consistently dominates the stat line every game - with few exceptions.  Whether it was injuries, quarterback, gameplan that was rarely Sammy, in LA or Buffalo (we caught a glimpse the season in Buffalo in the post-bye-week part of 2015 where Tyrod was riding him with targets like Secretariat and he was, with IIRC two exceptions, going off for 80-120+ and averaging 13+/rec, but even then there wasn't much about his game that commanded giving him the kind of target-share that guys like Julio get).

Now, mind you, I'm of the opinion that we've seen the same sort of thing out of Cooks if we're going largely off his New Orleans tape.  He's not an out-and-out feature-WR1 - he's going to have weeks where he goes off huge peppered with weeks where he's an also-ran.  That works fine for what the Rams want to do schematically, but if it's not the sort of thing you feel all too hot about paying a guy like a Top 5 player at his position.  If you can get him to agree to a contract similar (both in structure and in monies - adjusted for inflation appropriately) that Doug Baldwin signed then that's more reasonable, as they are - in terms of rate-of-production - very similar players.

[Forge]

17 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Actually, the last time (I think it might actually be the last two times) the Pats lost in a Super Bowl they traded up in the subsequent draft.  In fact, the last time they lost in a Super Bowl they went into the subsequent draft already with two 1st's (they had the Saints' pick from when the Saints traded back into the 1st for Mark Ingram the year prior) and they traded up from both of those 1st's.

I've considered the Pats a prime candidate to move up in the 1st for a while now; this pretty much cements it.

Good information, I didn't know that. 

[stl4life07]

23 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'm torn on this one. Cooks is an incredible talent, but I hate losing a first. And we're stuck in another situation where we just acquired a walk-year WR. We better extend him quickly. The nice part is that Cooks has all off-season to learn the offense and build rapport with Goff.

Cooks already has some chemistry with Goff. They have the same rep 1 so they have worked out together and Goff has thrown to Cooks too. Same as with Kupp before Kupp was drafted to the Rams. They all have the same rep 1. 

I’m not torn with losing the 23rd overall pick. Wade doesn’t put a premium on linebackers in his scheme and the Rams starting oline is set, barring injury and Snead/McVay talked about drafting interior OL, you can find great value there in the 3rd, 4th rounds or later with interior OL. The Rams get an elite WR in McVay system. Cooks is McVay “DeSean Jackson” and I don’t feel the Rams could find a guy that will impact the Rams at pick 23 the way Cooks will impact the Rams offense this season as the Rams push for a Superbowl.

[BroncoSojia]

15 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

This doesn't make sense. It's a superstition.

No. We ended up with the #1 scoring offense. 

Did you see what Sammy got paid? 

Brandin Cooks saw what Sammy got and he's going to want more than that. He's been way more productive than Watkins.

[bzane]

22 minutes ago, The LBC said:

I've considered the Pats a prime candidate to move up in the 1st for a while now; this pretty much cements it.

Hmmm- that being the case, and I'm deferring to you as one of the experts here- would you think off-hand if there were a particular QB whom the Patriots might target? One who would best fit into their system? I'm presuming Darnold is out of reach- the Browns can hardly pass on their QB-of-choice for a third consecutive season; but, after Darnold, what QB would best fit with the Pats? Josh Rosen, maybe? Good size, that great "arm talent", his relative immobility not so big an issue with New England? Could he be Tom Brady, jr., eventually?

[Dr LBC]

Also worth noting that Cooks' (former, may-be-again) agent Jeff Sperbeck just folded his own agency, The Novo Agency, which he founded in 2010 into Rep 1 Sports which is the agency which Jared Goff's agent, Ryan Tollner, is a principal partner at.  Cooks actually parted ways with Novo last year to move over to Tollner and Rep 1, and now Sperbeck has effectively followed.

I don't put a ton into the similar agent/client cookie jar, but it does at least note that there's an established relationship of successful negotiation between Snead/Rams and Cooks' representation.

[sammymvpknight]

Is there a precedent for a player being traded two seasons in a row. It’s even more unbelievable to consider that 1st rounders were involved both times. There has to be something about Cooks.

[MacReady]

Just now, 1ForTheThumb said:

How is this a bad move for the Patriots?

Makes them weaker in experience offensively? 

Quote

1) You think they would move Cooks if they really thought Gronk was retiring?

Why would it stop them?  If they had concrete proof Gronkowski was coming back, we'd have heard it by now. 

Quote

2) They got a year of Cooks on a cheap rookie deal, moved him a year later after picking up his option ($7.5M I believe) and then moved up in this years draft.

I never denied the value they got.  They got incredible value for him.  They got Cooks for a year and they moved up 9 spots in the first round by waiting a year.  It was a great return on their investment.  I never denied that. 

Quote

3) Cooks is a good player.  He opened things up vertically sure and drew a lot of PI's.  he and Brady weren't on the same page

Now you're getting into why it was a bad move.  Cooks is a good player.  He opened things up vertically.  He and Brady weren't on the same page and still managed to connect for over 1000 yards, 7 touchdowns and 16.6 yards per catch.  That was their first year working together. 

Quote

4) Patriots offense will be fine without Cooks. Still plenty of pass catchers.

They really don't have all that many.  They are a worse passing offense because of this trade. 

Quote

"That's a lot of holes to fill for them"- You know how you fill holes?

Trading Cooks added a hole.  No receiver they draft 23rd overall will match what Cooks would have.  At best it's a lateral move for them offensively. 

Quote

Also, I know you blatantly reach to discredit the Patriots and Belichick anyway possible

Don't know why this perception exists.  I FREQUENTLY credit the way Belichick runs the Patriots.  As a matter of fact, I had a miniature meltdown when the Patriots traded for Dorsett last year because I felt he was going to be really good for them at the cost of a third string QB.  So this is a blatant lie actually, but if it makes you feel better about the argument...

Quote

, but if you're going to crap on the Chandler Jones trade, at least post the correct trade. It was Thuney + Mitchell for Jones. Hardly a terrible move for Belichick. They were never going to give Chandler Jones that contract.

Okay, Thuney and Mitchell.  Doesn't really change anything.  The Patriots could have kept Chandler Jones for two more years by applying the tag, at which point they would have gotten at least a third round compensatory pick for him.  It was a bad trade.  They got Thuney and Mitchell for a franchise pass rusher when, had they just let him hit free agency, they would have gotten at worst a third round pick for him.  There is no way anybody could form a compelling argument that says the Chandler Jones trade was a good trade for the Patriots in the long run. 

We could carry this argument on for a couple pages if you want.  You could make your points and counterpoints, to which I'd respond, but the bottom line on both points...

Trading Cooks hurts the Patriots in the short term when their QB is going to be 41 at the start of this season.
Trading Chandler Jones for a second round pick when they could have had him for another year, plus a potential second year on the tag only to get at least a third round compensatory pick for him when he hit free agency was not a good trade.

[childofpudding]

From the Patriots perspective, Cooks will likely command big money in FA and the Patriots don't pay big money to WRs. So they lose Amendola and Cooks but get back Edelman and Mitchell, as well as a 1st. There are a lot of ifs with the health of Edelman and Mitchell, but if they and Hogan and Burkhead come back strong, I don't expect the offense to be much worse, if at all.

I'm still sad, though. I liked Cooks.

I think it could definitely be a win for the Rams as well, if they're able to sign Cooks long-term. If they gave up a 1st for one year of Cooks, that's not great.

[Dr LBC]

2 minutes ago, bzane said:

Hmmm- that being the case, and I'm deferring to you as one of the experts here- would you think off-hand if there were a particular QB whom the Patriots might target? One who would best fit into their system? I'm presuming Darnold is out of reach- the Browns can hardly pass on their QB-of-choice for a third consecutive season; but, after Darnold, what QB would best fit with the Pats? Josh Rosen, maybe? Good size, that great "arm talent", his relative immobility not so big an issue with New England? Could he be Tom Brady, jr., eventually?

I don't think they're moving up far enough to get one of the Top QB.  If anything, I'd expect them to trade up in the 1st for the areas that Belichick has typically coveted and to sit and wait for a QB to stash behind Brady similar to what they did with Jimmy G and Brissett.  If they move up, my bet is it's into the back 1/3 of the Top 15 for an OT, a highly versatile IOL (less a need currently, but guys like Wynn are Belichick bread-and-butter normally), a LB, or the pass-rushing DT they thought they were getting in Malcolm Brown (of which there are a number of guys in this class - Vea and Hurst definitely come to mind).  if they finagle some way of getting up into the Top 5 my bet is it's not for a QB, but rather for Bradley Chubb.

[jrry32]

22 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

Brandin Cooks saw what Sammy got and he's going to want more than that. He's been way more productive than Watkins.

He's actually worth it.

[BABPITT]

looks like a good pick but i wouldn't of gave up a 1st but when u tryna make a power move i guess its worth it but we will see.I hope NaVorro Bowman don't land in LA yes hes not the same Bowman but if you put him in that front 7 MY GOD .And lets just stop the New England Patriots is not gonna trade for Odell they not gonna give up two 1st and make him the highest paid wr i will be shock cause they really don't pay out big contacts 

[NVRamsFan]

 

[Dr LBC]

22 minutes ago, Forge said:

Good information, I didn't know that. 

Just went back and did some research.  Pats lost the Super Bowl XLVI to the Giants and then traded up from each of their two 1st's (with Cincinnati from the pick they'd received from the Saints to go up and get Chandler Jones and then with Denver from their natural pick to go get Donta Hightower).

I was wrong about the draft following Super Bowl XLII though.  They had a Top 10 pick from the Niners that year (and had to forfeit their natural 1st due to Deflategate) and actually traded back with the Saints that year.