NFL General Random Thoughts Thread

[Nabbs4u]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

And they still made a run in the playoffs with that locker room. Every team faces adversity it's how it's handled. 

Doug did as well as any coach would have especially given the fact that the qb looming was the first one to win a superbowl in franchise history. 

While I agree I'm getting the sense by some of the above he should be Clapping his way out of every situation? The Dallas Way?

I know its easy to assume Pederson is some lucky SOB and overrated but the facts above dont lie. Not only is he a SB winning HC and 4-1 in the playoffs after just 3 years, he's done it with an absurd amount of injuries that had to be overcome. 

Something Andy and both Sean's haven't achieved. Something Payton did once but hasn't recreated for almost a decade. Not only is DP Top 5, but Top 3 is absolutely within question. Haters will hate though.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Nabbs4u

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Not only is DP Top 5, but Top 3 is absolutely within question

lmao.. I cant make the joke I want to make here without getting banned. 

[ET80]

18 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

lmao.. I cant make the joke I want to make here without getting banned. 

Stop, stop, STOP.

Stop, just stop.

[Kiltman]

4 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I think as of right now Doug Pederson deserves to be 4 behind Payton. Doug is the type of coach who has an extremely high floor. He's not some innovative genius but he seems to have good command of a locker room and team. I think as of right now his way of coaching is very sustainable in that John Harbaugh model.

 

I think it’s a good way of putting it

He's fantastic at the little things. Motivation, keeping the locker room together, Making guys feel heard. This was a stark contrast to Chip.

I think his bonus trait is his willingness to change and adapt. He trusts the people around him and will use them and their ideas. The Eagles playbook is a Frankenstein of philosophies and plays. Reason we won the Super Bowl was because he tore up a huge part of what Carson could do that Nick couldn’t, and went back and grabbed some of Chip Kelly’s stuff that nick had success with.

You have that and you can always squeeze a little out of guys than what other teams would. adaptability, kind of like what BB does on defense.

He also listened to the analytics guys about situational football. Reason he beat the Pats besides unlocking Foles was he stepped on the gas. He went for it on easy to convert 4th downs. I think that situation aggressiveness was a thing the league has needed for a long time, people play it too safe. 

He’s a very good playcaller and builder of an offense. Which is what would probably set him above a Harbaugh, who is a lot of the same, good leader, but doesn’t have a side of the ball that he heavily influences or is in charge of.

[Kiltman]

5 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Good command of the locker room? 

The same locker room that had vets yelling in Wentz's face and calling him a terrible teammate? And then leaked it to the media? 

Then they had to ask other vets to go to social media and kiss up to Wentz?

Still made it one bad drop away from a second NFCCG with that locker room ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

He’s since handled it really well by letting Carson deal with it, he’s even said Carson is a little type A. Acknowledging it and defusing it was the perfect way to deal with it. Had he lied and ignored it, the story would have kept growing. He lets them hash things out, treats them like men. Doesn’t micromanage the team. Which is the way that most of the good ones do it.

He didn’t ask anyone to do that Matts, ha...how would he of done that? Did he break the rules and ask ex-teammates to do it too?

But if you want to get into it...it’s been long suspected it was Golden Tate, who was butthurt day one he got here, and was the chief source. If you ever look at Tate’s social media you’ll see how much of a phony thirst trap he is. Fans eat it up. I truly think it started because Carson was hunting in the Dakotas and seeing his family (resting his back) and he didn’t rush back to go out for a practice with Golden to look good for his followers and Philly fans. I’ve looked into it and that, as stupid as it sounds, was something you could point to.

But yeah Carson is type A...he can be intense. So are a lot of them. But he’s not a robot ahole like that can sometimes mean. You don’t have to be to be a good QB, but it doesn’t stop you like it would at other positions.

If anything it shows you how good Doug can control things that it’s become a non-issue, he gave acknowledgement and then downplayed the seriousness. Carson did way more things with his wideouts this offseason, which it was only the second year he could do that really. He’s been spending time with all the guys, especially Desean. All’s good in the hood 

 

[Soggust]

Obv Bill Belichick is in a class of his own.

After him, I can't believe the amount of disrespect Tomlin gets. I know it's a "what have you done for me lately" league, but the man has literally never coached a losing season and has a SB. I have a hard time putting him outside of top-3 and I'm not sure I get the Payton > Tomlin logic at all (although I will concede it's not a crazy take, I just don't personally agree).

If you want to argue McVay, I guess I could see it because of the way he turned that franchise around but , like Pederson, I just feel like you need a bit bigger sample size. Both are obviously FANTASTIC coaches and I don't think being #3-5 instead of #2-3 is really a big deal since #2-6 are all pretty interchangeable. 

I think Andy Reid should go down a bit in the list (I LOVE LOVE LOVE Andy Reid and think he is super phenomenal coach and turned my favorite team around, I just don't think being top 5-6 instead of top-2 is a "knock").

 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Soggust said:

Obv Bill Belichick is in a class of his own.

After him, I can't believe the amount of disrespect Tomlin gets. I know it's a "what have you done for me lately" league, but the man has literally never coached a losing season and has a SB. I have a hard time putting him outside of top-3 and I'm not sure I get the Payton > Tomlin logic at all (although I will concede it's not a crazy take, I just don't personally agree).

If you want to argue McVay, I guess I could see it because of the way he turned that franchise around but , like Pederson, I just feel like you need a bit bigger sample size. Both are obviously FANTASTIC coaches and I don't think being #3-5 instead of #2-3 is really a big deal since #2-6 are all pretty interchangeable. 

I think Andy Reid should go down a bit in the list (I LOVE LOVE LOVE Andy Reid and think he is super phenomenal coach and turned my favorite team around, I just don't think being top 5-6 instead of top-2 is a "knock").

 

I agree with most of this.  I'd put Payton at number 2 myself, since he has a super bowl and just a ton of winning seasons under his belt.  After that it gets a little stickier.  Harbaugh needs to be higher, Reid a couple spots lower, and the new guys shouldn't be ranked so highly with such a small sample size.  Tomlin, I get some of the disrespect, as it does seem like he came into a perfect situation with a high end team and hasn't gotten them back where they were since, but he has been there for years and they've won their division almost every year.

After the top 2, the next group is some combo of Reid, Harbaugh, and Carroll.  I'd put the new blood and Tomlin in the next tier after that.

[Matts4313]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Clowney-trade-Dolphins-Seahawks-Eagles-Jets-14396505.php?utm_campaign=CMS Sharing Tools (Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Texans have talked trades with the known teams + the redskins

[Soggust]

55 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I agree with most of this.  I'd put Payton at number 2 myself, since he has a super bowl and just a ton of winning seasons under his belt.  After that it gets a little stickier.  Harbaugh needs to be higher, Reid a couple spots lower, and the new guys shouldn't be ranked so highly with such a small sample size.  Tomlin, I get some of the disrespect, as it does seem like he came into a perfect situation with a high end team and hasn't gotten them back where they were since, but he has been there for years and they've won their division almost every year.

After the top 2, the next group is some combo of Reid, Harbaugh, and Carroll.  I'd put the new blood and Tomlin in the next tier after that.

I don't get what makes Payton better than Harbaugh, Carroll or Tomlin though? They all seem to be in the same boat with slight differences (Harbaugh better playoff records, Tomlin best reg season %, etc)

 

Sean Payton:

Pete Carroll:

Jim Harbaugh:

Mike Tomlin:

 

I mean, I just don't get why people always seem to group Tomlin in a second or third tier of coaches. His resume is as good as anyone else not named Bill Belichick. Sure, he had a lot of talent on his teams, but so did every other coach (hell, even Belichick has had great players).

Payton had Brees + Colston (and later Kamara, Thomas, Ingram etc.) and his defense, while mediocre, was #2 in turnovers his Super Bowl year. 
Carroll had the Legion of Boom + Wilson. 
Harbaugh has had plenty of elite defensive players and Flacco played out of his mind during the SB run (although I would argue he would have a much higher regular season winning % if he had the QB play of the other coaches on the list).

I'm not trying to say that any of these coaches haven't done an amazing job, or haven't had to deal with significant issues, aren't spectacular coaches or hell - even that they aren't as good as Tomlin. All I'm saying is that Tomlin certainly is in the discussion with all of them and it feels like everyone uses the "Well he hasn't done more with his talent" ignoring the fact that every successful coach has had talent and he has produced the second highest regular season winning %, never had a losing season, and the playoffs are a small sample size and it's simply not easy to win in the NFL (and he still has a winning playoff record fwiw). 

Am I missing something obvious here? I'm not even a Steelers fan.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Soggust

[Danger]

Matts, any Eagles fan around here who was calling for Pederson to be fired after halfway through 2017, was doing it purely as a meme at this point.

[Danger]

14 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said:

Are you agree with this list?

 

Reid and Nagy are too high. Reid should be rounding out the top 5 along with McVay. Sean Payton should be number 2. Pete Caroll has a case for being ahead of Reid and McVay as well though.

Jon Gruden should not be this high, and Mike Tomlin is a bit high for my liking, I'd have him towards the back end of the top 10.

[SBLIII]

14 hours ago, Steelersfan43 said:

Are you agree with this list?

 

Gruden has  no business being top 10, Harbaugh and Carroll should be top 5.

[Danger]

Matts' list is obviously that of a hater.

[Danger]

1. Bill Belichik
2. Sean Payton
3. Pete Caroll
4. Doug Pederson
5. Andy Reid
6. Sean McVay
7. John Harbaugh
8. Frank Reich
9.  Mike Tomlin
10. Anthony Lynn

Edited August 29, 2019 by Danger

[Kiltman]

11 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

And with 2, not 1, 2 incredible OCs that did the game planning in 2017

Every Eagles fan will tell you that losing them hurt and their team regressed offensively after losing them.

right @Kiltman @Danger?

Ask Vikings fans their opinion of Flip

He's good, but not perfect clearly. He did some of the redzone stuff.

Reich helped though for sure. 

I mean we could do that with all of theses coaches. At least Doug calls the plays, which not all of them do.

Losing coaches happens, good ones recover and stabilize.

He’ll have to do it again like Belichick has. Part of being good and successful. Duce, Groh and Press Taylor are good ascending talents, Groh needs to work on it a little more than others. But Duce will probably be a HC at some point. Press will be at least an OC some point soon. Schwartz on the other side could get another shot too.