Around The League V.2

[NYRaider]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Draft picks and the salary cap are things losing franchises think about. More evident than ever.

The Rams had the #1 defense in football and only two of their starters were 1st round picks by the team. Everyone else was either a mid-round pick, acquired via trade, or acquired via free agency. 

[bucksavage1]

10 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Draft picks and the salary cap are things losing franchises think about. More evident than ever.

100% agree

Bad franchises always looking forward to the drafts picks and looking to clear salary safe from bad signings. There's reasons why certain teams are always in the playoffs and others are always seemingly planning vacations in early January

 

[bucksavage1]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The Rams had the #1 defense in football and only two of their starters were 1st round picks by the team. Everyone else was either a mid-round pick, acquired via trade, or acquired via free agency. 

A Master class how to build a consistent winner. A team not satisfied with only one playoff win this year.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

A Master class how to build a consistent winner. A team not satisfied with only one playoff win this year.

10-6 with a second round appearance and QB's are getting moved. 

Over the last 4 seasons. 

Goff (42-20 record, 4 winning seasons, 67% win): 17,081 yards, 102 TD, 48 INT, 3 playoff appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance 

Carr (25-38, 0 winning seasons, 38% win): 15,702 yards, 89 TD, 40 INT, 0 playoff appearances, 0 Super Bowl appearances 

Yet the Rams were ready to ship Goff out of town immediately to give themselves a chance to compete. That's why they're going to win a super bowl next season. 

[Bitty 2.0]

This just shows you how hard it is to get a real pocket passing QB.

Teams are throwing multiple 1st round picks for a 33 year old Matthew Stafford.

Where are the people who say there's are franchise QBs and every draft

[big_palooka]

19 hours ago, Jerry said:

I'd rather have our cap situation than the Saints or Steelers lol.  They didn't even win a championship and their salary cap situations are all jacked up.

I'd rather have their talent. It's not complicated, they will restructure the players they want to keep and cut the players they know are replaceable. 

The Saints will not lose their star players. They will extend/franchise Lattimore and Ramcyzk. Let another team overpay for Williams and Hendrickson and take their compensatory draft picks for 2 replaceable players.

Then they have 8-9 guys they can cut and free up >45 mil for example Cook, Sanders, Jenkins, Brown, Easton none of which are replaceable. The question mark is Brees and if he retires.

Both team will be fine outside their QB spots and what comes next. Both are winning organizations.

[big_palooka]

19 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

Yes. I'll be patiently waiting for anyone to explain how it makes sense for Carr but not for Stafford. Wake me up when that happens.

W/L is not a QB stat. Both QBs played/play for losing organizations going nowhere.

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I'd rather have their talent. It's not complicated, they will restructure the players they want to keep and cut the players they know are replaceable. 

The Saints will not lose their star players. They will extend/franchise Lattimore and Ramcyzk. Let another team overpay for Williams and Hendrickson and take their compensatory draft picks for 2 replaceable players.

Then they have 8-9 guys they can cut and free up >45 mil for example Cook, Sanders, Jenkins, Brown, Easton none of which are replaceable. The question mark is Brees and if he retires.

Both team will be fine outside their QB spots and what comes next. Both are winning organizations.

Brees is gone.  And we'll see about the Saints being fine after they make all these adjustments.  I think there SB window just closed.  As for Steelers, if Ben comes back, I expect for them to take a step back as well for a couple years.  Players are obviously replaceable, but that still takes time, money, and some luck to make it happen.

[big_palooka]

25 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Brees is gone.  And we'll see about the Saints being fine after they make all these adjustments.  I think there SB window just closed.  As for Steelers, if Ben comes back, I expect for them to take a step back as well for a couple years.  Players are obviously replaceable, but that still takes time, money, and some luck to make it happen.

They will need to identify a QB post Brees and their window remains open. Brees actually cost them a shot this year if we're being honest.

Peyton is still the coach. They have a talented Oline. Kamara and Thomas (if he bounces back) are still at the skills. And they win on defense where they will still have Cam Jordan, Demario Davis and Lattimore. Gamebreaking talents on each level which is what the best defenses have.

It all comes down to the QB which they can upgrade from a skill perspective. But will downgrade from a leadership perspective. 

Steelers... I don't know much about. Ben is toast, but talks like he's coming back. They need to improve on offense but like the Saints, they have Heyward, Watt and Fitzpatrick.... game breakers at each level on defense. Defense will carry them so far.

[BackinBlack]

12 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

A Master class how to build a consistent winner. A team not satisfied with only one playoff win this year.

hmm but traded for a player you were laughing at a long with Carr as the only player to get 5 losing seasons and still have their job? calling the lions and raiders the 2 laughable franchises for doing that right?
he just got traded for 2 first round picks and a former 1st overall (plus lions ate a ton of cap, which was probably worht a first)
 

[NCOUGHMAN]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

10-6 with a second round appearance and QB's are getting moved. 

Over the last 4 seasons. 

Goff (42-20 record, 4 winning seasons, 67% win): 17,081 yards, 102 TD, 48 INT, 3 playoff appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance 

Carr (25-38, 0 winning seasons, 38% win): 15,702 yards, 89 TD, 40 INT, 0 playoff appearances, 0 Super Bowl appearances 

Yet the Rams were ready to ship Goff out of town immediately to give themselves a chance to compete. That's why they're going to win a super bowl next season. 

Told y’all Goff not a total slouch I don’t like him but he’s young and somewhat accomplished. 

[jimkelly02]

 

21 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

Yes. I'll be patiently waiting for anyone to explain how it makes sense for Carr but not for Stafford. Wake me up when that happens.

You really don’t see what the difference is?  Your kidding me right?  

Trading for Stafford is about as low risk as you can get.  Your trading for a proven top level 32 year old QB with 2 years left on his contract that pays him 43M with no real guaranteed money.  Stafford and Carr’s deals are both absolute steals.  If either one was on the UFA market right now they’d 
be Getting 35-36M per for 3-4 years.  Not to mention your getting out of Goff’s bad contract.  So your avoiding something like a 50M dead cap hit from releasing him and now only eating 22M in dead cap from trading him.

Second the Rams are only giving up a 3rd round pick this year.  The 2 1sts are 2 and 3 years out.  That means the value the Rams gave up is much lower than it appears.  Everyone knows when hon have to wait til next year the pick Has less value.  The delay in the transfer of picks means LAR is in win now mode... those picks will be very late in round 1.  I think the value of the trade is more in line with: Goff + ‘21 3rd + next year 1st (‘22 1st) + next year 2nd (‘23 1st) plus 3rd for 4th pick swap favoring Detroit. 
this is about as low risk as a big trade can have.  It’s an extremely calculated and managed risk.  The only risk is Stafford gets hurt like Alex Smith, the team has a bad record so the picks end up being really high, and LAR doesn’t get Stafford on the field.  

So.... no one here is clinging onto Carr if there was an opportunity to get a significantly better VETERAN QB on a very reasonable trade.  Carr and ‘21 3rd plus ‘22+‘23 1st for Aaron Rodgers?  Sign me up! now!!!

The anti Carr posters this year have proposed trading Carr and 2 future firsts and other picks to move up and draft a QB.    They’re not proposing trading for a proven high quality QB on a cheap contract.  Maybe someone has technically proposed that one, but the vast majority of the “Trade/Replace Carr!” Talk has been centered around drafting QBs like Jordan Love last year and trading up this year for a QB.... but we all know Lawrence is going 1 and it’s very very likely Zach Wilson goes 2.  So they’re talking about trading up for Justin Fields and Trey Lance.  Sure those players have a lot to like about them.... but they also are very to either bust or never become more than a replacement level starting QB.  

What makes you believe Justin Fields or Trey Lance (1 great year at a FCS school- that’s the definition of a risky high draft pick) are capable of carrying a poorly talented team to the playoffs?  Both are indeed highly rated prospects but certainly not without faults.  What makes you pretty certain either QB can carry a poorly talented team when they’ve always been on teams that were significantly more talented then their opponents... in college?   Not to mention when we trade those 1st round picks we are going to have less assets to build up the defense from its pathetic state.  personally I think only a Mahomes of Aaron Rodgers level QB could carry a defense this poor.   

The Anti-Carr posters remind me of the partisan Main Steam Media:  attack your opponent and avoid addressing the other sides valid concerns.  The posters wanting to keep Carr do not think he’s the best QB.  We just think that he’s good enough to get us to the playoffs if we fielded a decent overall team.  Heck, he did go 12-4 the only season we’ve had a talented roster.... and he carried us that year.  The “cap savings” from trading Carr away for a draft pick is minor.  I’ve already debunked that.  We’d trade away Carr’s >20M salary for a ‘21 dead cap hit of 2.5m and a draft pick QB who will make something around 6.5M, 8.0M, 9.5M, 11.0M.  But we wouldn’t go into season without a veteran QB... so we’d likely either keep Mariota at 11.35M or spend 5-8 on a borderline starter like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Winston, or Newton.  It’s basically a break even year 1... and 4-6M savings year 2 because we’d keep a very good back up qB.  That’s not this massive cap savings to build around like the anti-Carr posters pretend it is.  
We just believe that our defense while bad.... could be turned around if the right move are made.  The offense played good enough to get us in the playoffs.  We just think it’s less risk to spend heavily in the draft on defense and cut a lot of wasted cap room and be smart in FA.

the and btw I’m loving all the snipe anti Carr comments... “I wish our GM would take chances like that!” Etc. I take great joy in telling saying without a question of doubt “Carr is still your QB, sorry!”

 

[oakdb36]

4 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

 

You really don’t see what the difference is?  Your kidding me right?  

Trading for Stafford is about as low risk as you can get.  Your trading for a proven top level 32 year old QB with 2 years left on his contract that pays him 43M with no real guaranteed money.  Stafford and Carr’s deals are both absolute steals.  If either one was on the UFA market right now they’d 
be Getting 35-36M per for 3-4 years.  Not to mention your getting out of Goff’s bad contract.  So your avoiding something like a 50M dead cap hit from releasing him and now only eating 22M in dead cap from trading him.

Second the Rams are only giving up a 3rd round pick this year.  The 2 1sts are 2 and 3 years out.  That means the value the Rams gave up is much lower than it appears.  Everyone knows when hon have to wait til next year the pick Has less value.  The delay in the transfer of picks means LAR is in win now mode... those picks will be very late in round 1.  I think the value of the trade is more in line with: Goff + ‘21 3rd + next year 1st (‘22 1st) + next year 2nd (‘23 1st) plus 3rd for 4th pick swap favoring Detroit. 
this is about as low risk as a big trade can have.  It’s an extremely calculated and managed risk.  The only risk is Stafford gets hurt like Alex Smith, the team has a bad record so the picks end up being really high, and LAR doesn’t get Stafford on the field.  

So.... no one here is clinging onto Carr if there was an opportunity to get a significantly better VETERAN QB on a very reasonable trade.  Carr and ‘21 3rd plus ‘22+‘23 1st for Aaron Rodgers?  Sign me up! now!!!

The anti Carr posters this year have proposed trading Carr and 2 future firsts and other picks to move up and draft a QB.    They’re not proposing trading for a proven high quality QB on a cheap contract.  Maybe someone has technically proposed that one, but the vast majority of the “Trade/Replace Carr!” Talk has been centered around drafting QBs like Jordan Love last year and trading up this year for a QB.... but we all know Lawrence is going 1 and it’s very very likely Zach Wilson goes 2.  So they’re talking about trading up for Justin Fields and Trey Lance.  Sure those players have a lot to like about them.... but they also are very to either bust or never become more than a replacement level starting QB.  

What makes you believe Justin Fields or Trey Lance (1 great year at a FCS school- that’s the definition of a risky high draft pick) are capable of carrying a poorly talented team to the playoffs?  Both are indeed highly rated prospects but certainly not without faults.  What makes you pretty certain either QB can carry a poorly talented team when they’ve always been on teams that were significantly more talented then their opponents... in college?   Not to mention when we trade those 1st round picks we are going to have less assets to build up the defense from its pathetic state.  personally I think only a Mahomes of Aaron Rodgers level QB could carry a defense this poor.   

The Anti-Carr posters remind me of the partisan Main Steam Media:  attack your opponent and avoid addressing the other sides valid concerns.  The posters wanting to keep Carr do not think he’s the best QB.  We just think that he’s good enough to get us to the playoffs if we fielded a decent overall team.  Heck, he did go 12-4 the only season we’ve had a talented roster.... and he carried us that year.  The “cap savings” from trading Carr away for a draft pick is minor.  I’ve already debunked that.  We’d trade away Carr’s >20M salary for a ‘21 dead cap hit of 2.5m and a draft pick QB who will make something around 6.5M, 8.0M, 9.5M, 11.0M.  But we wouldn’t go into season without a veteran QB... so we’d likely either keep Mariota at 11.35M or spend 5-8 on a borderline starter like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Winston, or Newton.  It’s basically a break even year 1... and 4-6M savings year 2 because we’d keep a very good back up qB.  That’s not this massive cap savings to build around like the anti-Carr posters pretend it is.  
We just believe that our defense while bad.... could be turned around if the right move are made.  The offense played good enough to get us in the playoffs.  We just think it’s less risk to spend heavily in the draft on defense and cut a lot of wasted cap room and be smart in FA.

the and btw I’m loving all the snipe anti Carr comments... “I wish our GM would take chances like that!” Etc. I take great joy in telling saying without a question of doubt “Carr is still your QB, sorry!”

 

Sorry, i stopped reading as soon as i realized you didn't understand what i'm talking about. I'm talking about the W/L record. I'm saying Stafford is valued despite a poor W record. I'm saying arguing Carr is a bad QB because of a poor record isn't valid.

[Jerry]

50 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

They will need to identify a QB post Brees and their window remains open. Brees actually cost them a shot this year if we're being honest.

Peyton is still the coach. They have a talented Oline. Kamara and Thomas (if he bounces back) are still at the skills. And they win on defense where they will still have Cam Jordan, Demario Davis and Lattimore. Gamebreaking talents on each level which is what the best defenses have.

It all comes down to the QB which they can upgrade from a skill perspective. But will downgrade from a leadership perspective. 

Steelers... I don't know much about. Ben is toast, but talks like he's coming back. They need to improve on offense but like the Saints, they have Heyward, Watt and Fitzpatrick.... game breakers at each level on defense. Defense will carry them so far.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

Saints about to be 70M over the cap without Brees?  That's tough stuff.    Steelers seem like they can manage though.

[Rich7sena]

13 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

100% agree

Bad franchises always looking forward to the drafts picks and looking to clear salary safe from bad signings. There's reasons why certain teams are always in the playoffs and others are always seemingly planning vacations in early January

 

 

13 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

A Master class how to build a consistent winner. A team not satisfied with only one playoff win this year.

The Rams aren't the model, though. The Seahawks, Steelers, Packers, Saints, and Ravens have all been as successful as the Rams over a longer period of time and have built their roster the "traditional way." Because McVay and Snead have a lot of friends in the media, people have been propagandizing the Rams aggressive approach without considering that their most successful seasons (2017 and 2018) came when their team was built through the draft (Goff, Gurley, Kupp, Donald, Saffold, Brockers, Joyner, Johnson).

Also, I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on the Texans, who have built their roster virtually the same way over the past few seasons.