Around The League V.2

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

You can not compare the 2.  Herbert is throwing darts for TDs and Carr is underthrowing or throwing behind guys on what should be TDs.  Not saying Carr has not made some great throws but but Hebert is doing it when it is needed.  If Carr pulled up like Hebert did I would not be made about him throwing it away if it was injury related.  He could not run or take another hit.  Carr got crap because he 1) threw it away on 4th down and 2) did it because he did not want to extend a play when he was fully healthy.  The team probably told him he can not take another hit.  If he had broken ribs another shot to that area could have damaged his internal organs like his spleen.

Respectfully disagree, Herbert should have tried to get the first down. The commentator even said it and after he threw the ball away he literally kept jogging for 5 yards towards the sideline. There was a clear space where he could have just ran and slide with no danger, that’s why it was such a head scratcher. I’m not saying run into a guy and try and truck his way to the first but IMO he should have at least jogged and slid.

[BobbyPhil1781]

People still bring up him throwing it away on 4th down like he does it constantly lol. It happened one time and was a very stupid play. Like any QB in this league is perfect. 

Y'all are corny if you do this and it's not a "pro-Carr" statement. It's a statement calling you corny if you expect perfection every time bc you are

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Respectfully disagree, Herbert should have tried to get the first down. The commentator even said it and after he threw the ball away he literally kept jogging for 5 yards towards the sideline. There was a clear space where he could have just ran and slide with no danger, that’s why it was such a head scratcher. I’m not saying run into a guy and try and truck his way to the first but IMO he should have at least jogged and slid.

I agree there was a place to slide and he had a clear path.  I thought the same thing when it happened but with a rib injury you do not take the chance and sliding to the ground to get up is painful.  With an injury like that running is probably out of the question from the pain.  From what I remember he started to go and took a couple steps before throwing it away.  He fractured the rib cartilage.

[roi34]

22 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lol we have the 3rd maybe 4th best qb in the div

carr can’t make these throws

Carr made some great throws in the game. Mahomes is best QB in NFL, but he played bad. Carrs arm talent isnt the issue, its his lack of leaving pocket as much as he should if play or pocket breaks down.  

 

Herbert is super talented but gets so much credit for being talented yet no flack for always coming up short. on paper the team is loaded... yet still always around . 500

[drfrey13]

24 minutes ago, roi34 said:

Carr made some great throws in the game. Mahomes is best QB in NFL, but he played bad. Carrs arm talent isnt the issue, its his lack of leaving pocket as much as he should if play or pocket breaks down.  

 

Herbert is super talented but gets so much credit for being talented yet no flack for always coming up short. on paper the team is loaded... yet still always around . 500

Herbert's rookie year ranks up there with Carr's best year.  Last year he did better than Carr ever has.  Carr has played in 1 playoff game.  It is funny you use the description coming up short because that is literally and figuratively what Carr did last week head to head with Hebert.  You can even bring up the final game last year because Herbert was carrying that team.  We were being carried by Jacobs and Carlson.

[Bitty 2.0]

9 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Herbert's rookie year ranks up there with Carr's best year.  Last year he did better than Carr ever has.  Carr has played in 1 playoff game.  It is funny you use the description coming up short because that is literally and figuratively what Carr did last week head to head with Hebert.  You can even bring up the final game last year because Herbert was carrying that team.  We were being carried by Jacobs and Carlson.

Dude LAC had the better team last year but I guess that doesn't matter.

[Frankie2Gunz]

21 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

The truth is, most QBs don't. 

Guys like Mahomes, Lamar, and Brady haven't ever really played in adverse situations . They walked into good ones. 

Rodgers and Russell Wilson didn't deal with it very well. Dak doesn't appear to either.

I'd put Josh Allen, Matt Stafford, and Derek Carr I'm their own category. I might even slot Goff in there if he continues to not absolutely crumble in Detroit. They made it through situations that we've seen absolutely wreck QBs long term. No "could have (possibly)" with those guys, they've DONE it. And I think that often goes overlooked. 

In picture perfect scenarios with schemes, weapons, coaching, and stability, plenty of guys can look great. What about when those situations deteriorate?

It's why I always respected Alex Smith so much. After his first few years in the league pre-Harbaugh, it's a miracle he had the career he wound up having. Dude should've been washed out by like 08-09. 

 

This is a completely underrated POV.   Goff has impressed me since he has been in Detroit and as you point out he has not crumbled in a very tough situation.  He has earned more of my respect in Detroit than he ever did in LA.  Not that I think he is a good QB but he is better than I thought and is playing decently considering his surrounding talent and terrible D.  

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Dude LAC had the better team last year but I guess that doesn't matter.

I will not deny that the Chargers had more talent but you could also say that Herbert made his team better also.  At some point you have to stop using the talent around him excuse.  Our offense is set up similar to Cinci so if Carr can not do what Burrow did last year do we admit that Burrow is better than Carr?  Carr has all these new weapons but Herbert still easily outplayed Carr last week.  As for the game last year how do you blame a QB who throws for 3 TDs, 1 Int, and 383 yards as coming up short?  Sounds like he was not the problem.  In fact the last drive would have been a game winning drive if the Chargers had Carlson.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by drfrey13

[Bitty 2.0]

55 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I will not deny that the Chargers had more talent but you could also say that Herbert made his team better also.  At some point you have to stop using the talent around him excuse.  Our offense is set up similar to Cinci so if Carr can not do what Burrow did last year do we admit that Burrow is better than Carr?  Carr has all these new weapons but Herbert still easily outplayed Carr last week.  As for the game last year how do you blame a QB who throws for 3 TDs, 1 Int, and 383 yards as coming up short?  Sounds like he was not the problem.  In fact the last drive would have been a game winning drive if the Chargers had Carlson.  

Dan Marino comes to mind.  Its how you play with in the system that counts. Don't get me wrong  Herbert is great and I would want him on the Raiders over Carr but there is something off with the whole team and its been like that for years. They should just be better than they are.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

This is a completely underrated POV.   Goff has impressed me since he has been in Detroit and as you point out he has not crumbled in a very tough situation.  He has earned more of my respect in Detroit than he ever did in LA.  Not that I think he is a good QB but he is better than I thought and is playing decently considering his surrounding talent and terrible D.  

I see Goff fairly similarly to a Drew Bledsoe type. 

I think he's good enough to be a starter but not good enough to unequivocally hold the fort down against stiff competition. You don't necessarily look to replace him, but you don't second guess when a better option takes over. You can win with him, you probably don't magically start losing (more) without him, and he's going to be competitive for you and punch above his weight more often than not as the years go by. 

In Goff's case specifically, I agree on the respect thing. Like him or not, he was coming off some good years where he played like a top 5-8 QB at times. I think LA did him pretty dirty on his way out, and while I think McVay is a fantastic coach, my opinion of him suffered a bit from how things were handled. Goff, as far as I can tell, just went about his business despite having to know he was going to a potentially abysmal situation (bad roster, new coaches, immediate talk of being a bridge QB, etc.) and never threw any sort of fit about it. 

I think his ceiling is probably QB16-19 in the league, but he's definitely an underdog I have no qualms pulling for. 

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Dan Marino comes to mind.  Its how you play with in the system that counts. Don't get me wrong  Herbert is great and I would want him on the Raiders over Carr but there is something off with the whole team and its been like that for years. They should just be better than they are.

I completely agree with the knowing how to win and playing within the system.  Tom Brady comes to mind with that argument.  Even when his stats where not good he still could manipulate the clock to get a win a lot of the time.  Why I do not judge Herbert harshly here is 1) he is young, 2) he gets meaningful scores late in games (Not garbage stats), and 3) the coaching decisions and injuries have had a much larger impact on game outcomes.  The pick six against the Chiefs looks bad but a lot of the blame goes to others.  The TE was gassed and should not have been on the field.  The TE quit on the play and at the very least should have caused an incomplete pass.  The coach did not want to sub out the TE because it would give the defense a chance to sub into its goal line defense but then you call a quick throw to the player that was asking to be subbed out.  When the ball was intercepted the TE was more concerned with picking up his mouth piece.  Was not a bad throw.  The TE was suppose to cut under the defender and keep his body between the ball and the defender because the CB had outside leverage.

Overall the Chargers are losing in spite of Herbert not because of him.

[G]

On 9/15/2022 at 8:44 PM, BobbyPhil1781 said:

3/4 QBs are making over $40 million/year and the only reason Herbert isn't is bc he's on a rookie deal. Some people aren't meant to be taken seriously. I might be one of those people but ncough always has been

I think we all have our bias. Though I might view Cough's thoughts on Carr to be a bit bias (Carr has his issues so he does have good reason to have the bias) I've always liked his (Cough's) drafting thoughts, Oline and DB thoughts. Even yourself Bobby P. (Can't say BP because that's another poster lol) will have great comments to be taken seriously and other times it's just bickering with another who disagrees with you. I 'iggy' a few posters that sound like broken records in the off season but once pre-season starts I take them off iggy because they also have excellent viewpoints on certain subjects but get stuck in an OCD loop that gets annoying when we're not WINNING! As a franchise with a history of winning we don't like the losing and get overly critical. It's probably why I've always backed Carr. Even with his issues the guy cares about being a Raider and bringing back the winning culture. Carr and Mack were the start of that and Gruden messed that up so now it's up to McDaniels to right the ship. 

I value both yours and Cough's thoughts and I like it when I get a differing viewpoint to make sure I'm not stuck in an echo chamber. 😃

Oh and another reason why I like Carr so much is I'm 51 and seen a LOT of HOT GARBAGE QB's come and go. Would rather have a top 15 guy who sometimes looks top 10 and sometimes has horrible games. Even when he folds like a folding chair AVAILABILITY is the #1 Ability in the NFL. Had he got pulled in 2016 before the injury I 100% believe the Oakland Raiders went to the Super Bowl and probably won it. Then 2017 would have played out totally differently.

[BobbyPhil1781]

24 minutes ago, G said:

I think we all have our bias. Though I might view Cough's thoughts on Carr to be a bit bias (Carr has his issues so he does have good reason to have the bias) I've always liked his (Cough's) drafting thoughts, Oline and DB thoughts. Even yourself Bobby P. (Can't say BP because that's another poster lol) will have great comments to be taken seriously and other times it's just bickering with another who disagrees with you. I 'iggy' a few posters that sound like broken records in the off season but once pre-season starts I take them off iggy because they also have excellent viewpoints on certain subjects but get stuck in an OCD loop that gets annoying when we're not WINNING! As a franchise with a history of winning we don't like the losing and get overly critical. It's probably why I've always backed Carr. Even with his issues the guy cares about being a Raider and bringing back the winning culture. Carr and Mack were the start of that and Gruden messed that up so now it's up to McDaniels to right the ship. 

I value both yours and Cough's thoughts and I like it when I get a differing viewpoint to make sure I'm not stuck in an echo chamber. 😃

Oh and another reason why I like Carr so much is I'm 51 and seen a LOT of HOT GARBAGE QB's come and go. Would rather have a top 15 guy who sometimes looks top 10 and sometimes has horrible games. Even when he folds like a folding chair AVAILABILITY is the #1 Ability in the NFL. Had he got pulled in 2016 before the injury I 100% believe the Oakland Raiders went to the Super Bowl and probably won it. Then 2017 would have played out totally differently.

"A bit bias" is generous lol but you're a much more reasonable poster than I am. I would say it's "useless" when talking about the QB position. Others, sure, valid point. Carr absolutely has his faults and there's no questioning that. He's good enough to win with but a lot his detractors will use the most corny points to denounce him. I touched on that earlier though. 

Your last statement is very reasonable and I definitely agree. This was Carr's first game in a new system with never playing in the preseason which, IMO, was a huge mistake. We still completed against one of the best teams in the league and I expect improvement as the year goes on. Just want to get back in those playoffs and give us another chance..... Hopefully not in 20 degree weather lol. Holy **** that was a cold game to be at. I've sworn off going to games that cold again....... but if they make it back and wind up playing in Cincy, I'll probably be right back there lol

[G]

On 9/17/2022 at 8:47 AM, Bitty 2.0 said:

Dan Marino comes to mind.  Its how you play with in the system that counts. Don't get me wrong  Herbert is great and I would want him on the Raiders over Carr but there is something off with the whole team and its been like that for years. They should just be better than they are.

Shotty Curse is the ChargIR's and Sander's Curse for Lions. Browns cursed too...Shotty?!? Moving to Baltimore and instantly winning the Super Bowl then the expansion team goes Couch potato, staff infections, Winslow, and went full rebuild to get as many picks possible but add an off the field PR nightmare...CURSED!!! 

[ronjon1990]

On 9/16/2022 at 9:35 PM, drfrey13 said:

Herbert's rookie year ranks up there with Carr's best year.  Last year he did better than Carr ever has.  Carr has played in 1 playoff game.  It is funny you use the description coming up short because that is literally and figuratively what Carr did last week head to head with Hebert.  You can even bring up the final game last year because Herbert was carrying that team.  We were being carried by Jacobs and Carlson.

Herbert's rookie supporting cast exceeds Carr's best overall supporting cast, too. 

QBs aren't the only players on the field.