Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Jeezla]

WWE needs to figure out how to lock Drew up for another 3 years. Drew is doing his best work right now.

[bigbadbuff]

JD is such a dork lmao I can’t take him seriously 

[Jeezla]

IC title needs a re-design.

[THE DUKE]

Heel Drew is gold, lol. Give that man his title!

[drew39k]

3 hours ago, Texansfan713 said:

welp based on tonight I am right

Tonight's raw was telling. The boos are going to be deafening.

Wwe is betting on being able convince fans that  Cody drew Rollins is for the best, but if they fail.... That maina match between reigns and rock could be worse than Goldberg/Lesnar w/Austin 

 

[bcb1213]

Hmm.  Breaker is the last person to defeat Gunther.  Every dominant wrestler needs to have one guy he just can't seem to beat.  Maybe that's the wm match

[THE DUKE]

I'm starting to think this whole Rock angle is a work.  Either that or a tremendously stupid move followed by a brilliant pivot to fan backlash.  Starting to think it's a work though, if it is, well done.

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

I'm starting to think this whole Rock angle is a work.  Either that or a tremendously stupid move followed by a brilliant pivot to fan backlash.  Starting to think it's a work though, if it is, well done.

A work from the beginning? BEYOND highly doubtful. Everything looked like panic moves when they first happened. Its all so choppy (from Rock first surprise appearance to last weeks SmackDown). If it was a work, they would have laid out these crumbs much cleaner than this. 

But yes, they can save themselves. And looks like they may actually pull it off (not convinced until they pull it off before stubbing their toe).

I think its much more likely that they went about all this in a way where they could leave themselves 'outs' if it all went wrong. And its all going even worse than they thought it could, because "c'mon, its The Rock, everyone loves him". So they will take the escape hatch at this point, whatever they decide that is.

The Rock and Cody posting things about "Long Game" and "Trust Me" feel much more like reactionary tweets they are instructed to put out so they can enter the spin cycle. Because, as I said if this was always the plan, they would have laid these things out before the backlash, not after.

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

A work from the beginning? BEYOND highly doubtful. Everything looked like panic moves when they first happened. Its all so choppy (from Rock first surprise appearance to last weeks SmackDown). If it was a work, they would have laid out these crumbs much cleaner than this. 

But yes, they can save themselves. And looks like they may actually pull it off (not convinced until they pull it off before stubbing their toe).

I think its much more likely that they went about all this in a way where they could leave themselves 'outs' if it all went wrong. And its all going even worse than they thought it could, because "c'mon, its The Rock, everyone loves him". So they will take the escape hatch at this point, whatever they decide that is.

The Rock and Cody posting things about "Long Game" and "Trust Me" feel much more like reactionary tweets they are instructed to put out so they can enter the spin cycle. Because, as I said if this was always the plan, they would have laid these things out before the backlash, not after.

This right here... except for the last part.  Rock's been talking about his love for the "long story" since his ESPN interview well before the Rumble.  Honestly, if we want to talk reactionary it's the people who are assuming (granted, there have been indirect allusions - as to how intentional those are or not is debatable - to lead these assumptions) things that actually haven't happened.  Cody hasn't announced that he's challenging Seth.  And the fact that the WHW title promo last night made a very clear point of everyone but Cody jumping to assumptions about what he was going to say without actually allowing him to speak, give me reason for pause that that's actually going to be his decision.  Are they stalling?  To a degree - they want to milk the crap out of this Super Bowl weekend WM Kickoff Press Conference (which is a very TKO thing).

There are varying podcasters that I put varying amounts of credence to their opinions.  As far as former talent, there are very few guys I take their words as near gospel as to how things likely are and or ought to go - mostly because these are guys who have put themselves in positions where the have the proverbial F-you money and DGAF if they burn bridges, but also aren't going to set fire to bridges just because they can for clicks.  Most prominent among those are Bully Ray, Kevin Nash (who you still have to take with a grain of salt, but outside of being bluntly critical of Hunter personally, you usually get his unvarnished opinion), Stevie Richards, and Shane Douglas.  On the non-talent end, Sam Roberts - though I know he annoys some people and people think he's automatically going to toe the WWE line because they contract him to do PLE pre-shows - is a quality listen because he often offers observations that slip a lot of people's noting because they're letting their gut reactions steer them.

Sam had a really poignant bit on the Smackdown promo that I think a lot of people, even me until I gave it a second watch, missed: Even after the Rock/Cody hug and Rock whispering in his ear, the cameras stuck with Cody as he exited the ring and walked back up the ramp - even at the expense of Rock and Roman being in the ring.  And WWE production shoot and choose which shots to show very intentionally.  They also ran a best of Cody Rhodes on their YouTube channel over the weekend, even in spite of the downvoting that the video of the Cody/Rock segment was getting concurrently.

The other really strong point Sam made was that, setting aside what we do actually know and don't know about the Cody/Rock situation, the execution of the Bailey/Damage Control segment (on the same show) and the Seth/Drew (in particular Drew) stuff on RAW were written/produced/executed by the same company and same creative group.  That's at least a reason to not lose total faith, go full Chicken Little, and give them a chance to cook... at minimum through the presser on Thursday.

As to Bully Ray, the thing that stuck out most to me (as Bully is a stalwart guard of preserving kayfabe, being anti fans using industry terminology - because "the biggest mark is the guy trying to convince himself that he's not a mark, but others are," etc) on the Busted Open where they discussed this was Bully staying completely stoic while self-admitted-"fan-not-journalist," Dave LaGreca was going full blown 12-year-old on a message board emotional freakout.  I'm not saying he knows something, in fact, I'm fairly certain he doesn't, but he knows the industry in and out.  I think he can read between the lines better than most and while he's not always right (and he'll be the first to remind people that), his is a better educated opinion and assessment than most.  Also, while I don't expect it to happen, the storyline that he and Mark Henry laid out together would be absolutely epic and is still very much viable.

I think, ultimately, that parts of this whole thing are a work.  Parts meant to drum up more attention on the event in the mainstream as well as among community in general, following a big cog in what was to be one of their main events (Punk) having to pull out injured.  There's too much evidence since Hunter got the book that they've got their finger on the pulse of what people want to believe they're just going to pivot on heel and submarine themselves.  But even in Black and Gold NXT, what Hunter was always great about was that he'd show people and not tell them, and sometimes he'd even misdirect with what he told them, but you shouldn't believe him until he actually showed you.  It's a tweak on a very old school line of thinking, and while I don't believe Hunter's in there getting his jollies playing shell games with smart marks who think they've got it all figured out and instead make themselves that much easier to con, I do think he's getting a chuckle out of watching them lose their ish like the sky is falling while those freakouts are just increasing the free publicity the event is getting.

I'm going to make what will probably come off as a lofty claim and I fully own that I need to go dig up some tangible evidence to back this up (it's off pure gut feeling and rough memories), but when this is all said and done, I think a proper wrestling historian will look back and say, "That's how Dusty would have booked it."

Edited February 6 by Dr LBC

[StLunatic88]

38 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

Rock's been talking about his love for the "long story" since his ESPN interview well before the Rumble. 

I do believe that The Rock is ultimately interested in the long story. And I do think there is a better than likely chance that the Hunter/Cody duo may truely being sitting back thinking "trust me" and that they will come out on top in the long run. I just think those tweets were post-op measures. That those were more part of the reactionary spin they started immediately when everyone booed The Rock like they did. 

Now if Rock truly is ok with becoming the heel Authority figure, then I will give him all of the flowers. But everything about him, and what he has put into being "Dwayne" everywhere else other than in the WWE, s me he wasnt going into this planning on becoming the new "Mr. McMahon"

42 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

I think, ultimately, that parts of this whole thing are a work.  Parts meant to drum up more attention on the event in the mainstream as well as among community in general, following a big cog in what was to be one of their main events (Punk) having to pull out injured.  There's too much evidence since Hunter got the book that they've got their finger on the pulse of what people want to believe they're just going to pivot on heel and submarine themselves. 

I actually do have faith in the Creative team, its why I do expect them to pull this out of a nose-dive. And probably do it very quickly. You pointed out the Damage CTRL and the WHC promos, those were amazing. Its why all this other stuff feels so out of place.

My theory is, the call to pull in The Rock right now came from above Hunter, came from the actual TKO people. And Hunter/Creative/Cody are all smart enough, and have their finger on the pulse enough that they laid out some stuff that could be used when the forced cooperate plan fell apart. I also think it all happened in the weekend after the Rumble, when the Vince stuff began to snowball more and more. Because if they knew there was even a chance that The Rock would be in anyway part of the immediate story for Roman, there would have been ZERO reason for Cody to call him out on that Saturday night after he wins back-to-back. You just dont need to do it, the Maina sign point would have been enough.

52 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

As to Bully Ray, the thing that stuck out most to me (as Bully is a stalwart guard of preserving kayfabe, being anti fans using industry terminology - because "the biggest mark is the guy trying to convince himself that he's not a mark, but others are," etc) on the Busted Open where they discussed this was Bully staying completely stoic

I think guys like him, like Sam, like Kaz on The Ringer, what they know is that with Hunter in charge, they will be able to at the very least pull it out of the fire. At the very least we are going to end up with a Triple Threat, and at best they are about to attempt the most ambitious angle that we have seen in decades, potentially of all time (if Rocky is game to play) and they dont want to crap all over something that may end up being amazing, just to get a hot take off.

 

But I will also say, without this visceral fan reaction (that night, online, at the house show) that this is probably doesnt change from Rock just taking Cody's spot. And we are possibly hearing a whole different tune from those guys that we trust to react appropriately. So while the reaction like LaGreca is too much, the fans voicing what we all feel collectively is still important.

[Troy Brown]

6 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

I'm starting to think this whole Rock angle is a work.  Either that or a tremendously stupid move followed by a brilliant pivot to fan backlash.  Starting to think it's a work though, if it is, well done.

I'd be shocked if this was intentional but I will say that it will absolutely not be Roman vs Rock at WM.... WWE will not close out WrestleMania with a heel on heel match

[Dr LBC]

3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

But I will also say, without this visceral fan reaction (that night, online, at the house show) that this is probably doesnt change from Rock just taking Cody's spot. And we are possibly hearing a whole different tune from those guys that we trust to react appropriately. So while the reaction like LaGreca is too much, the fans voicing what we all feel collectively is still important.

I don't know that they'll go fully the route that Mark Henry suggested, but like I said there are elements of Bubba's suggestion and Henry's suggestion that could be crafted together to work.

To Bubba's point, they need have Cody (not Rock... Cody) come out and say what Rock whispered to him and specifically WHY he elected to give his Main Event spot to Rocky.  It needs to be a crux of the presser, to be honest.  And you kick it off by Rock saying, just after he and Roman have been set down at opposite ends of the table for the press conference, that before they get started he needs to acknowledge someone.  And then Roman gets the youknowwhat-eating smirk on his face and Heyman gets his u sual smarmy look... and Rock says that he needs to acknowledge Cody Rhodes without whom he wouldn't be here.

Then you bring Cody back out at Rock's behest.  And we get Dwayne (not the Rock character) asking Cody to tell everyone what he said to him when Cody sought out his counsel.  And Cody goes on to explain how Dwayne expressed that he (Cody) of all people would understand when there were things that were bigger than championships and that like the intro to his entrance music says, "Wrestling has more than one Royal Family."  And he and Dwayne talked about what his father and the High Chief Peter Maivia might have talked about if there was someone in either's family that got to a point that servicing their ego with success started dragging the family name through the mud.  And that until someone from within the family knocked Roman from his high horse, he was going to keep exploiting the rest of the family to keep him on top, even if that meant fighting his fight for him to put a thumb on the scales.  If Cody is going to get a righteous shot at finishing his story "and not get cheated again," the old dog needs to take the young pup down a peg in Tribal Combat.

Now, Bubba has been flat out adamant (as I've been for a while) that the most appropriate place for Cody to finish the story is MSG.  Yes, they're not going to get the size of the gate they would at a JerryWorld or Levi's Stadium, but presently the UFC holds the MSG all-time gate record (so TKO knows how to get that), and it would be (ironically) a backhanded shot across the bow of Vince because of how much Vince used to value the Garden in his prime, if Hunter and TKO beat the record that beat his... without him.  That said, the way they went about executing this with the Smackdown segment and the reception it's received may have poisoned that well in that fans have convinced themselves - whether it's the case or not - that Rock swung his power around and cheated Cody out of what was rightfully his and we may have reached the point where perception is treated as reality, even if it isn't.

In the Bobby/Henry solution, Roman faces Rock in Tribal Combat (which should help protect Roky some anyway, similar to how Stone Cold was protected against KO with the stipulation in that "match") and Roman does what Roman does: Solo interference, possibly even (since he is a free agent now) a debuting Jacob Fatu getting involved, and Rock loses. Roman poses, Cody's music hits - Cody doesn't pause for the "Whooooa" but makes a beeline for the ring and get right up in Roman's face.  HHH's ends credits spot starts with a shot of the face-to-face, when rolls out of the ring and snatches a hot mic to call Roman a stupid SOB, because he may have cheated to beat "The Rock," but one of us is an employee and the other is Dwayne Johnson of the Board of Directors, and you can't cheat the Board.  And he announces the MSG event (they've got multiple dates in 2024 dog-eared right now but haven't committed to any as of posting) and on that night, Roman is going to realize just how much he just stepped in it, "Uce."

Cut some time (and plenty of hype) to the MSG event (and Roman will have ducked out on having defended his title since Mania, because there's already a history of that, so it's an easy sell, except this time it's constantly talked about by commentary).  And credit to Mark Henry because this part is sheer brilliance, it gets announced just prior to the event that the whole Anoa'i (wrestling) family will be present to - and my bit I'd add to this, you have Roman be the one to assemble them saying he's going to show Cody that there is only "one Royal Family... and he's the head of it."  Except, one by one (not as noticeably at first; maybe just Jey and Ava at first in Cody shirts) it's clear that to an individual, they're on the side of Cody; Roman angered the Elders.  You have them all seated on either the hard-cam side (which is usually tarped off) or at the top of the ramp in folding chairs, Solo and both Uso's included.  And when Roman tries to call down Jimmy to help on his behalf, Rikishi puts his hand on Jimmy's shoulder and pulls him back down.  Same for when Jey tries to get up seeing Jimmy start to get up; Kish gives him that Dad look and tells him to "Sit his expletive back down."

Finally you get to Solo, sitting seething, watching as the tide has swung out of Roman's favor and Cody's already gotten a tight near-fall off a CrossRhodes.  Rikishi side-eyes him, but Solo's not going to be stopped.  Rocky get up and gets in Solo's face until... Afa and Sika both stand up, turn around, and give Solo looks that are part, "I was part of bringing you into this world, boy, I can still take you out," and "If you actually want to be that Tribal Chief apparent, don't you dare cross us, tama."  Then Roman, watching this from the ring, realizes no one is coming to help him... turns around into a Disaster Kick or Cody Cutter, then multiple CrossRhodes and gets stuck for the pin.  And you close the show with the belt being put around Cody's waist, while the photo of Dusty at the Garden with the WWWF title belt that was taken back from him on the Titantron.  And your closing shot is Cody (I'd have him holding his daughter as well as the belt) staring up at that photo that he reference that first RAW after Mania promo he did after arriving.

[Edge]

Here is a timeline of the Vince/Laurinaitis/WWE allegations, if someone wants to reread everything.

https://wrestlenomics.com/2024/02/01/timeline-of-wwe-sexual-misconduct-allegations-vince-mcmahon-resignations/

[Edge]

Not surprising, that Mercedes Moné will debut in AEW, if you followed the last few weeks on that matter. But this is basically the confirmation and most likely the announcement later today. The ticketmaster link to the TD Garden show on March 13th is up.

https://www.ticketmaster.com/aew-presents-dynamiterampage-boston-massachusetts-03-13-2024/event/0100603EB26F3CBD

Edited February 7 by Edge

[Fresh Prince]

Is there any chance WWE can get away with doing Rock v Roman at mania. But Roman doesn’t put the belt on the line, just the “head of the table” moniker. 
 

Could it take some heat of Rock if the fans know it’s not for the title?