SBLIII Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: Patrick Mahomes 2018 season was the best QB play I’ve ever seen. And if he wins 2+ SBs and continues to put up similar numbers, he’s the GOAT. Rings be damned.... I would agree with that. However putting up similar numbers on a consistent basis will be tough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 11 hours ago, Mizter_Clean10 said: Tom Brady is a system quarterback. I always find it funny when people say this, because they never back it up with any kind of logical argument...and in your case, none at all. 8 hours ago, Mizter_Clean10 said: Which they do with and without him. Really? How many championships does "the system" have WITHOUT Brady? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I always find it funny when people say this, because they never back it up with any kind of logical argument...and in your case, none at all. Really? How many championships does "the system" have WITHOUT Brady? Belichick has a losing record without Tom Brady. With him he has the best win percentage of any coach. Belichick has 1 playoff win without Tom Brady. With him he has the most playoff wins of all time. Belichick’s teams won 6 Super Bowls with 4th quarter game winning drives by Tom Brady. Brady has 3 MVP’s, multiple all pros, broke the single season TD record once, has the single season TD:INT record, and broke the record for most attempts without an INT in 2010. He’s led the league in every major QB stat multiple times. He’s going to retire in the top 2 at a minimum in yards and touchdowns and likely will be top 5 or 3 in passer rating. Anybody who thinks he’s a system QB is only revealing that they really want to believe he is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Mizter_Clean10 said: Which they do with and without him. which system are you talking about? You scream the casual NFL Instagram poster. If you want real facts, you should know that the Patriots run a common offensive system that has been in the NFL for a long time ran by tons of other teams. As far as success goes, the Patriots have missed the playoffs 3 times since 2000, in 2 out of 3 years Brady was not the QB. So with Brady, NE made the playoffs 16/17 times (94%) and without him 0/2 (0%). There is no magical system behind it that nobody else can run or is unknown, sorry to burst your bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: Patrick Mahomes 2018 season was the best QB play I’ve ever seen. And if he wins 2+ SBs and continues to put up similar numbers, he’s the GOAT. Rings be damned.... 3 QB’s have had seasons like Mahomes Marino in 1984 (also his sophomore season) Peyton in 2004 and 2013 Brady in 07 In each case it involved a QB who had a revamped offense in its first or 2nd year and then the league adjusted. And reality is Mahomes offense is already weaker without Hunt and it’s unlikely he’s going to ever play with a more stacked offense again. It’s historically unsustainable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Bo Jackson is all hype and woulda coulda, no substance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Most starting caliber QBs don't have a large effect on wins and loses if swapped with one another. Only the absolute best and absolute worst QBs in the league would significantly change a team's wins and losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 hours ago, lancerman said: Belichick has a losing record without Tom Brady. With him he has the best win percentage of any coach. Belichick has 1 playoff win without Tom Brady. With him he has the most playoff wins of all time. Belichick’s teams won 6 Super Bowls with 4th quarter game winning drives by Tom Brady. Brady has 3 MVP’s, multiple all pros, broke the single season TD record once, has the single season TD:INT record, and broke the record for most attempts without an INT in 2010. He’s led the league in every major QB stat multiple times. He’s going to retire in the top 2 at a minimum in yards and touchdowns and likely will be top 5 or 3 in passer rating. Anybody who thinks he’s a system QB is only revealing that they really want to believe he is. Belichick also turned around a bad Browns team and had it in the playoffs by 1994 with a solid (but unspectacular) roster. They even won in Texas Stadium over the two-time defending champs. And, that was a much less healthy situation than he has in NE (Modell was a much worse owner than Kraft, and the NFL should have taken the team away from him). Also, a lot of Brady's +100 passer ratings happened with elite players. For example, before NE got Moss and Welker in 07 (along with Donte' Stallworth), he never had a rating over 100 (his highest rating was 92.3, and he had four years with ratings in the 80's). In addition, the records set during the last 15 years or so don't mean as much. Namath's 4,000 yards one year way back when was more impressive than anything that Brady, Brees, Peyton, etc.. have accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Prince Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Walker was elite before coming to the pats? That’s a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Illegal contact, especially the automatic first down portion, has done irreparable damage to passing defense/inflated QB play over the last decade. It's basically killed man defense in the slot and cover 2/Tampa 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: Belichick also turned around a bad Browns team and had it in the playoffs by 1994 with a solid (but unspectacular) roster. They even won in Texas Stadium over the two-time defending champs. And, that was a much less healthy situation than he has in NE (Modell was a much worse owner than Kraft, and the NFL should have taken the team away from him). Also, a lot of Brady's +100 passer ratings happened with elite players. For example, before NE got Moss and Welker in 07 (along with Donte' Stallworth), he never had a rating over 100 (his highest rating was 92.3, and he had four years with ratings in the 80's). In addition, the records set during the last 15 years or so don't mean as much. Namath's 4,000 yards one year way back when was more impressive than anything that Brady, Brees, Peyton, etc.. have accomplished. This is ignorant and just wrong In the 6 years before Belichick the Browns went to the AFCCG 3x Times, won 3 playoff games, had 4 seasons with a winning record, had 3 season with double digit wins, and qualified for the playoffs 5 out of 6 times. By comparison Belichick had 1 winning season, and qualifier for the playoffs once, with 1 playoff win. No fan in their right mind would take Belichick’s 5 year run over the previous 5-6 years. So that’s just ignorance and confirmation that you don’t know what you are talking about. The rest of your post is just as ignorant. He’s only had passer ratings in the 80’s 4 times. 3 were pre the 04 rule changes (effectively his first 3 years as starters) when he had Brown as his best WR and a mediocre to bad WR set that was worse than any your boys Manning or Elway ever had. The only other was 2006 when they got rid of Branch and he still dragged that sorry *** offense to the AFCCG. Also it’s nice to know that we are ignoring records set in this era. Okay how about in the last 15 years only 3 QB’s broke 50 TD’s and Brady was one of them. How about the fact that even compared to his peers he is finishing in the upper echelon of stats You don’t have credibility on this topic Edited September 6, 2019 by lancerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 41 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Illegal contact, especially the automatic first down portion, has done irreparable damage to passing defense/inflated QB play over the last decade. It's basically killed man defense in the slot and cover 2/Tampa 2. Auto first down isn’t the problem. It’s the post 04 way they’ve ruled on it. If they went back to the old way we’d be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 hours ago, SBLIII said: which system are you talking about? You scream the casual NFL Instagram poster. If you want real facts, you should know that the Patriots run a common offensive system that has been in the NFL for a long time ran by tons of other teams. As far as success goes, the Patriots have missed the playoffs 3 times since 2000, in 2 out of 3 years Brady was not the QB. So with Brady, NE made the playoffs 16/17 times (94%) and without him 0/2 (0%). There is no magical system behind it that nobody else can run or is unknown, sorry to burst your bubble. You’re wrong. Didn’t you hear from the braintrusts here that this is a system that requires a mediocre QB to run it (something some people here have actually said) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, lancerman said: This is ignorant and just wrong In the 6 years before Belichick the Browns went to the AFCCG 3x Times, won 3 playoff games, had 4 seasons with a winning record, had 3 season with double digit wins, and qualified for the playoffs 5 out of 6 times. By comparison Belichick had 1 winning season, and qualifier for the playoffs once, with 1 playoff win. No fan in their right mind would take Belichick’s 5 year run over the previous 5-6 years. What happened before doesn't really matter because Belichick isn't the one who broke that team up. What's relevant is that they were in the dumpster in 1990, and he had them in the playoffs by 1994. 18 minutes ago, lancerman said: The rest of your post is just as ignorant. He’s only had passer ratings in the 80’s 4 times. 3 were pre the 04 rule changes (effectively his first 3 years as starters) when he had Brown as his best WR and a mediocre to bad WR set that was worse than any your boys Manning or Elway ever had. The only other was 2006 when they got rid of Branch and he still dragged that sorry *** offense to the AFCCG. Also it’s nice to know that we are ignoring records set in this era. Okay how about in the last 15 years only 3 QB’s broke 50 TD’s and Brady was one of them. How about the fact that even compared to his peers he is finishing in the upper echelon of stats We aren't ignoring records set in this era. They just aren't as impressive. This is the best time to be a QB in the history of the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 The Browns had been awful in 1990 too.They were 3-13 in that year with a awful points differenciel of -234 who is even worse that their 0-16 season in 2017! Only in 2000,the Browns had a worst point differencial that in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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