sammymvpknight Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: Nonsense. The strength of schedule argument is weak. His numbers aren’t THAT different from playing the Dolphins/Cardinals as with the Chiefs/Browns. Dolphins- 330 total yards, 5 TDs. Roughly 275 yds and 4 TDs came in the first half and we mostly ran the football in the third when Lamar stayed in. He was out the entire 4th quarter. So his numbers weren’t inflated as he spent only half the game giving it a “full go”. What’s more Brady and Dak also played the Dolphins early in the season, Brady posted only 264 yds and 2 TDs. Dak posted only 246 yds, 2 TDs, 1 int. Neither came close to the 5 TDs that Lamar posted. Do we discount Brady’s performance against the Steelers or Mahomes performances against the Raiders? But I digress. Cardinals- 392 total yards, 2 TDs. Lamar played the entire game this time. Cardinals played the opposite of the Dolphins. The Cardinals gameplan was predicated on forging Lamar to beat them with his legs. He did breaking his own Ravens rushing record and Lamar did a good job picking and choosing when to carve them with the pass. Chiefs- 313 total yards, 1 TD. The Chiefs have so far done the best job against Jackson of any team, outside of that second Chargers game. Andy Reid’s familiarity with his previous coaches likely plays a part in his understanding of what they are thinking or trying to accomplish on a play by play basis. If the Miami game was a statistical anomaly, so was this. The completion percentage, the lack of touchdown passes, and the lower YPA. The Chiefs consistently pose the biggest threat to our passing game due to Chris Jones ability to wreck the interior pocket. He’s truly an elite force and that’s the pressure that most bothers Lamar as he can’t step into his throws using a wide base, limiting his accuracy. Browns- 313 total yards, 3 TDs, 2 Ints. The Browns are a divisional rival and were in a must win game fighting with their backs against the wall. There defense the previous week stifled the Rams offense to 20 points, Goff totaled 268 yds, 2 TDs, 2 Ints. Lamar had a superior performance. What’s more the Browns defense is a top 10 unit this season. They’re currently ranked 13th but have faced some of the top offenses to this point this season. So what we have is Lamar seeming to consistently get just around 320 yards of total offensive production (excluding his outlier against Arizona) and 2.5 TDs (excluding his “outlier” against Miami) plus 1 INT. So if I were to extrapolate those numbers across an entire season, you have Lamar finishing with a 67 comp% 5,120 total yards, 40 TDs, and 16 Ints. So yeah... excluding the statistical “outliers” within the statistics, Lamar still has MVP type numbers. Better than Mahomes? Probably not. But good enough for top 3-5? Surething. 720 > 626. 7 > 4. 0 < 2. And the Chiefs defense is pretty bad too. The Browns were the first decent defense that he has faced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said: 720 > 626. 7 > 4. 0 < 2. And the Chiefs defense is pretty bad too. The Browns were the first decent defense that he has faced. I don’t think you know how statistical outliers work. You’re erasing TWO games completely out. As if that makes sense when the TDs and yards are in line with production obtained in his other games minus the yards in Arizona and the touchdowns in Miami. But hey I’ll play your game... 313 yds, 2 TDs, 1 Int as averages across the entire season would be 5008 yds, 32 TDs, 16 Ints. That’s still enough to be in the MVP conversation by season’s end. He wouldn’t win over Mahomes. But that was my point since the beginning. Unless of course you’re saying the above numbers aren’t enough for him to be in the conversation. What’s more, you keep saying “winning MVP” no one here has stated that he would win it in any thread. Only that he’s in the conversation. So perhaps you need to calm down on your attempts at building your straw man as no one has fallen for it to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 If you want to use the "outlier" argument (which is problematic with only 4 games of work), then you should take away Lamar's best game vs. Miami and his worst game vs. Cleveland. If you do, his numbers are still solid. That said, we will see how these guys perform down the stretch. Baker has faced 3-4 solid defenses (albeit the Rams game didn't age well after Tampa...YIKES) and Lamar has faced one. Clearly, Baker needs to get better, and if you're the Ravens, you're happy with where LJ is after 4 games in 2019. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: I don’t think you know how statistical outliers work. You’re erasing TWO games completely out. As if that makes sense when the TDs and yards are in line with production obtained in his other games minus the yards in Arizona and the touchdowns in Miami. But hey I’ll play your game... 313 yds, 2 TDs, 1 Int as averages across the entire season would be 5008 yds, 32 TDs, 16 Ints. That’s still enough to be in the MVP conversation by season’s end. He wouldn’t win over Mahomes. But that was my point since the beginning. Unless of course you’re saying the above numbers aren’t enough for him to be in the conversation. What’s more, you keep saying “winning MVP” no one here has stated that he would win it in any thread. Only that he’s in the conversation. So perhaps you need to calm down on your attempts at building your straw man as no one has fallen for it to this point. My argument was that he’d look much closer to the last two games than the first two games (because I believed strongly that the first two were outliers). You were the one who disagreed with me. Even though simple math shows that he did significantly better in the first two game against dumpster fire defenses. I later said that he’d probably put up pretty good stats this season but that he won’t be in the ballpark for MVP...which he won’t be if he keeps the week 3-4 trend...which is in my opinion best cases scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said: My argument was that he’d look much closer to the last two games than the first two games (because I believed strongly that the first two were outliers). You were the one who disagreed with me. Even though simple math shows that he did significantly better in the first two game against dumpster fire defenses. I later said that he’d probably put up pretty good stats this season but that he won’t be in the ballpark for MVP...which he won’t be if he keeps the week 3-4 trend...which is in my opinion best cases scenario. I just did the math. Keeping the week 3-4 trend please explain to me how those numbers aren’t MVP worthy? Whats more with such a short sample size “games” cannot be considered “outliers” and thus only “statistical data points” can be. Which is why I said I don’t think you understand how that works. You still haven’t explained to me how extrapolating the last two games only over an entire 16 game season removed him from the conversation. I’ve never seen a situation where someone with that amount of production is not in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 So we're making a tiny sample size even smaller? LMAO. Give it 10 weeks then we should talk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 9/12/2019 at 3:52 PM, BaltimoreTerp said: My opinion on this is that whoever had the better game last week is probably the better QB, and this will remain true in this thread over the entirety of the 200 pages and several years this thread will live on. Checking in this week to announce they are now both irredeemable failures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, BaltimoreTerp said: Checking in this week to announce they are now both irredeemable failures. *Afraid to laugh in case it's true* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 ???? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Malik said: ???? this makes sense. Baker isn't mobile compared to LJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Malik said: ???? LJ is an incredible athlete and able to run/escape and really make defenses pay. As a result, force defenders on the 2nd level and even secondary players panic, run up to tackle him, and it results in open receivers. Baker is college athletic...and he's just another guy in athleticism in the NFL for QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 5:55 AM, SBLIII said: this makes sense. Baker isn't mobile compared to LJ. That's only one piece of the puzzle. Being mobile is a good way to escape pressure and complete passes but also so is knowing how to navigate the pocket while keeping your eyes down field. Baker is neither of those things currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I’m rolling with Lamar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Lamar Jackson has elite talent. Baker Mayfield does not. This isn't close. Its Lamar by a mile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 On 10/11/2019 at 2:16 PM, VanS said: Lamar Jackson has elite talent. Baker Mayfield does not. This isn't close. Its Lamar by a mile. Baker on rhythm is LJsquared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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