Rod Johnson Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I mean I guess I could just say I think DePodesta is pretty much the only the person in the organization I trust to make a decent decision on a coach, but because he's the only one who seems to have any idea what he's doing. Until I see a detailed analysis of what our game preparation looked like compared to the 49ers I am going to be pretty agnostic about what analytics has to do with it. There is a lot of stuff that was just blatantly apparent Freddie was doing a terrible job at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I mean I guess I could just say I think DePodesta is pretty much the only the person in the organization I trust to make a decent decision on a coach, but because he's the only one who seems to have any idea what he's doing. Until I see a detailed analysis of what our game preparation looked like compared to the 49ers I am going to be pretty agnostic about what analytics has to do with it. There is a lot of stuff that was just blatantly apparent Freddie was doing a terrible job at. Analytics is a tool smart people use. Freddie seems nice but maybe not the sharpest knife in the draw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: Good points. I still think it's reflective of Freddie's lack of judgement and ability that something so obviously a problem couldn't be corrected in game or even over the course of the season. I trust Dorsey's ability to judge talent over what our analytics heavy front office was doing. I won't really defend him past that because he sucked at a lot of aspects of GMing. Maybe, but I think you’re overselling what Dorsey did or underselling the nerds. Baker and Ward are nice, but also top 5 picks in a great draft. When the nerds took a swing in the top 5 they did fine with Garrett. They found guys like Larry and Schobert day 2/3. Jabril and Njoku aren’t stars, but they’re solid starters and we needed (still do) as many of those as possible. I’d love to have seen what those guys could have done with coaches who knew how to utilize them and stable environments. Quote Still think that the fans screaming for analytics are investing as much blind faith in it as the people who taut the intuitive football guy approach. This high level data exists and is being utilized in ways fans don't really have access to. Maybe what our team needed was a coach that would teach Baker how to step up in the pocket as much as they needed a detailed analysis of what personnel groupings would succeed. Again, and “team analytics” has said this repeatedly from the beginning, it’s not one or the other, it’s definitely 100%, without exception, both. You need people to understand the personal aspects of coaching people/individuals like character, work ethic, etc. You need people to spot technique issues and correct them. It’s both. Always has been. Berry is a nerd, but he’s also a “real football guy”. He was a player in college, came up under Polian, was thought highly enough of to be kept by Dorsey for his 2018 draft and then took a better job with the Eagles under Roseman. This is the “nerd” who more or less led the scouting side under Sashi. Quote To me "analytics" is just another buzzword to simplify what's needed to succeed in the NFL as much as "west coast concepts" was being used when we were sucking off the Holmgren/Shurmur era. By some, yes. Others understand the concept pretty clearly. Quote Every team already uses it, and some are more successful because of it than others. When you're a fan that's so rabid about the idea that you'd defend trading back until the end of time or drafting Owen Marecic then you've confused being a zealot with intelligence. You can defend the concept even if the results don’t work out in every example. I don’t need to point out the examples of “football guys taking impact players” in the top 10 that went over like a fart in a diver’s helmet do I? As analytics apply to drafting, the numbers generally indicate the “answer” is more picks. The numbers show that over time the best and worst GM’s hit on picks within 10% as far as a success rate. The difference is volume. Ive linked this article numerous times, but if you’ve never read it I’d highly recommend you do. https://www.vox.com/2014/5/7/5683448/how-nfl-teams-ignore-basic-economics-and-draft-players-irrationally That is analytics. It’s not a buzzword to simplify anything. It’s actual data that takes emotion, feelings, preconceived notions and commonly held beliefs out of a situation and tells you what the facts are. Are some some of those picks going to flame out? Yes, of course. But at least statistically, the nerds will have roughly as many Owen Marecics as the 30 year NFL scouts will have Austin Corbetts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooks1957 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Prologue to 2019. I still think there is a franchise QB in there. I am firmly in the camp that Baker's 2019 fall off was due to three main reasons. 1.) - Dorsey failed to adequately address the offensive line after the Joe Thomas retirement. I am not going to kill him for taking a flyer on Greg Robinson, but he also should have had a workable backup plan to that. And if you were counting on Chris Hubbard to be "an anchor" on the other side.... Well, he was "terribad". 2.) - Horrible play calling. My brother told me he had heard from his buddies that their sources told him that the real force behind the successful play calls of 2018 was the remnants of the Todd Haley playbook, and Ken Zampese. With both gone in 2019, we saw how Freddie called his own games. 3.) - Baker's off season. Simply put - Baker acted out like a 20 something year old who got a bunch of money and started to believe his own press clippings. I think there is a franchise QB still in Baker - he still just had to get the youthful silliness out of the way and realize this game is harder than it looks. So I expect a rebound to 2018 form because I think Stefanski will implore the front office to shore up the OL if his offense is to reach its potential. Play calling should be massively improved. And I hope Baker had a heart to heart talk with 2019 Baker; and that allows the old Baker to return. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooks1957 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) On 1/14/2020 at 7:11 AM, brooks1957 said: Prologue to 2019. I still think there is a franchise QB in there. I am firmly in the camp that Baker's 2019 fall off was due to three main reasons. 1.) - Dorsey failed to adequately address the offensive line after the Joe Thomas retirement. I am not going to kill him for taking a flyer on Greg Robinson, but he also should have had a workable backup plan to that. And if you were counting on Chris Hubbard to be "an anchor" on the other side.... Well, he was "terribad". 2.) - Horrible play calling. My brother told me he had heard from his buddies that their sources told him that the real force behind the successful play calls of 2018 was the remnants of the Todd Haley playbook, and Ken Zampese. With both gone in 2019, we saw how Freddie called his own games. 3.) - Baker's off season. Simply put - Baker acted out like a 20 something year old who got a bunch of money and started to believe his own press clippings. I think there is a franchise QB still in Baker - he still just had to get the youthful silliness out of the way and realize this game is harder than it looks. So I expect a rebound to 2018 form because I think Stefanski will implore the front office to shore up the OL if his offense is to reach its potential. Play calling should be massively improved. And I hope Baker had a heart to heart talk with 2019 Baker; and that allows the old Baker to return. Some of the mock drafts have us taking 3lineman. haley was responsible for overpaying are right tackle. dorsey having signed Hubbard and drafting Corbett deserves a f that said whoever did the drafting of lineman for Vikings is even worse I hope Stefanski looks for somebody else. Edited January 16, 2020 by mtmmike Misspelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Dorsey reemed systematically reemed us. Two bad coaching hires, haley and freddie. Bad free agents, hubbard, carrie, smith Bad trades, obj, vernon Obvisous bad draft picks, corbett and chad. Bad roster movements, ogbah, and nassib. Didnt acquire significant future assets. The further away we get from him the turdier he appears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, mtmmike said: haley was responsible for overpaying are right tackle. I strongly believe he will be cut. His deal ends up being 2yr $15m. Not that bad. If he sees the life of that deal, it be awful. Cut him and reinvest that’s money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, buno67 said: I strongly believe he will be cut. His deal ends up being 2yr $15m. Not that bad. If he sees the life of that deal, it be awful. Cut him and reinvest that’s money That said if you are the new gm due you sign both Costanzo and conklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Dorsey reemed systematically reemed us. Two bad coaching hires, haley and freddie. Bad free agents, hubbard, carrie, smith Bad trades, obj, vernon Obvisous bad draft picks, corbett and chad. Bad roster movements, ogbah, and nassib. Didnt acquire significant future assets. The further away we get from him the turdier he appears. I think Haley was a fine hire. No one knew him and Hue would be that bad together. how was Carrie bad? He brought depth to the position and saw actions. Hubbard and Smith weren’t good. Every contract he gave out tho had solid out clauses Still wait or see on OBJ. Dude wasn’t properly utilized. two bad picks doesn’t make him awful. When Thomas has a chance to truly play last year he was looking decent. He missed a lot of training camp last year due to injury and it put him way behind for Greg Williams bad rosters moves? Sorry Ogbah was bad and never produced. I don’t care that he looked good for his new team cause he never looked good here. Same with Nassib didn’t do anything prior to cut that made you think he for sure has to stay on the roster. didn’t acquire future assets? He got a 3rd pick for Duke Johnson. He got a decent draft pick for Hyde. Traded Jamaar Taylor for a 6th 2020. Traded Coleman 7th 2020. Trades Avery for a 4th 2021 (Avery barely even played for the eagles this year). So what if he didn’t get us extra 1st picks or whatever. it’s like you were expecting Dorsey to be perfect that he would nail every signing, draft pick, trade, and etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Dorsey reemed systematically reemed us. Two bad coaching hires, haley and freddie. Bad free agents, hubbard, carrie, smith Bad trades, obj, vernon Obvisous bad draft picks, corbett and chad. Bad roster movements, ogbah, and nassib. Didnt acquire significant future assets. The further away we get from him the turdier he appears. The Freddie hire was obviously bad, but Dorsey was in a tough spot. It would have been hard to go in a different direction after the success our offense had. Obviously guys like DePodesta weren't buying into Freddie, so maybe he knew something the rest of us didn't. Hubbard, Carrie and Smith weren't good signings, but it's not like those signings are going to hurt us long-term. Smith is already gone, and we can easily cut Hubbard and Carrie this offseason with no repercussions. Jury is still out on the OBJ trade. The Vernon trade hasn't looked good - not that he's a bad player but he didn't make the impact that we were hoping for. Again, we can cut him without any repercussions. Corbett was a bad pick, no doubt. But every GM has big misses like that. Thomas started to emerge this season and looks like he should be a solid rotational player at worst. Cutting Nassib was dumb and many of us said so at the time. Ogbah was solid, but let's not pretend he was some great player for us. He was merely solid - nothing more and nothing less. Obviously I'd rather have him than Murray, but supposedly Ogbah wanted out. He also made some good/great decisions. Baker had a down year, but we've all seen how good he can be. And it's not like Darnold has lit the world on fire either. Most thought we'd go for Chubb at #4, and while he wouldn't have been a bad pick, Ward was probably a better pick as he's a top talent and filled a bigger need (at least at the time). He grabbed an elite RB in Nick Chubb in round two - thanks to the Sashi trade. Then he made moves like trading Kizer for Randall, who was great for us year one and at least serviceable year two. Even if we don't keep Randall, that was easily a win for us. Dorsey wasn't perfect, and I'm not even that mad that he's gone, but he was still by far the best GM we've had since our return - not that that's a very high bar. He had his fair share of good and bad moves, and it's too early to say for some of his moves (Baker, OBJ, etc.). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieCamp Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said: It probably didn’t take too long at all to see problems 😂 I just hope Baker is open to coaching. That’s the key 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, mtmmike said: That said if you are the new gm due you sign both Costanzo and conklin depends if you like a tackle in the draft. Gotta sign atleast one vet tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, brownie man said: It probably didn’t take too long at all to see problems 😂 I just hope Baker is open to coaching. That’s the key well proly saw that you shouldnt run 5step&7step drops out of shotgun or giving him proper reads to make 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.