Browns fire HC Eddie Kitchens and GM John Dorsey

[RaidersAreOne]

Dennis Allen would be the most Browns signing ever.

[soflbillsfan]

12 minutes ago, lolsurebro said:

I bet he's interested in a fat wallet.

well if that was the case then he would have ended up with the colts which is a more stable organization. New England has something in mind for him to cause him to pull out of that deal 2 years ago. Maybe things have changed since then.

[swede700]

42 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Dennis Allen would be the most Browns signing ever.

No, hiring Jason Garrett would be.

Edited December 30, 2019 by swede700

[Bonanza23]

58 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Dennis Allen would be the most Browns signing ever.

We really need to just stay away from ex Raider coaches. 

[JBURGE]

Dennis Allen has been fairly good as New Orleans DC, no? Maybe it's time for his 2nd chance

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

I thought the Raiders were the laughing stock of the league. Thank you Browns.

[El Ramster]

Dammit. Really wished he got one more year for the LOLs 

[swede700]

24 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I thought the Raiders were the laughing stock of the league. Thank you Browns.

They were the laughing stock because of the cap hell they were put in by Al Davis.  Allen suffered because of the lack of talent that resulted from having no draft picks either while McKenzie tried to fix it.  He wasn't a great head coach but the deck was stacked against him coming off the Hue Jackson debacle.  However, I do agree that the Browns hiring him would be a tremendous mistake, because he probably needs a more stable situation.

[Broncofan]

7 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Honestly, cap space is the thing I have to push back on. There’s a lot of dead weight that will be cut and our cap space will skyrocket because of it. We’ve always had cap space.

 

Dorseys major screwups have been hiring Freddie and not replacing Joe T properly.

I'll preface this by saying that my comment on Dorsey's cap space should have been more directed to 2018, so when I looked it up, I see that he slowed down on his old ways in 2019.   But to recap:

2018 

-3.1 and 16M for Tyrod Taylor - WHIFF

-4.1 and big contract for Jarvis Landry - HIT

-Greg Robinson - UDFA - HIT

-Chris Hubbard - 4 years, 36M - MISS (not as bad as a complete whiff)

-Travis Carrie, 4 years / 31M - WHIFF

-Carlos Hyde 3 years / 15M - WHIFF (and worse, took time away from a far better player)

-Chris Smith, Terrance Mitchell & Darren Fells, all signed to multi-year deals around 4M - WHIFF x2, Mitchell at least was a rotational guy, if not that great, the cost wasn't crazy.

That's a terrible return for the outlay in resources.  And before ppl say he had lots of room - this is exactly what Dorsey did in KC that led to his downfall.   Now, at least in 2019, he didn't go so $ crazy:

2019

Traded 1.16 for OBJ and took on the 16M AAV contract - miss for 2019, but jury's out for 2020+ (and it's not a whiff)

-Sheldon Richardson, 3 years, 39M - HIT

-Traded Zeitler for Vernon - WHIFF - and a top 5 OG is just more important than a 2nd DE, from a roster perspective it's absolutely a luxury item.   Only a CLE fan would say otherwise.

And the fact most of those contracts are expiring isn't a nod to Dorsey - it's how NFL contracts are for non-elite players.  Dorsey gets ZERO credit for that.  Any GM can get a deal to expire in 2 years cap hit-wise if the player is not elite.   To somehow paint Dorsey as this cap manager who had a say - misses the reality that most mid-level FA's only have 2 years guaranteed at most, barring injury guarantees.

So I'm too harsh on Dorsey's cap management from 2019 - but the point still stands - his roster construction, for the resources he's been given, have been tremendously underwhelming.   And really, along with the Kitchens hire, it comes down to not addressing the OL when he had a blank cheque capital-wise in draft/cap resources.    Putting his faith in Austin Corbett has bit him hard 2x - both in the failed belief he could play T (quickly disabused), and then the failed belief he could start inside (he couldn't).

Now, to be clear - Dorsey's a great talent evaluator.  It's what made his bones in KC, and his eye for draft talent in the middle rounds, and his ability to mine cheaper talent, it's his strength.  But Dorsey also demonstrated a clear lack of concern for salary cap management in KC - he's just getting a ton of space to burn through before his spending ways get him in trouble.  But there's nothing to really say he's changed his stripes, Sashi Brown just gave him a 3-year free pass.    When you add in the personnel decision he made with Kitchens as HC, and the total disregard for OL construction on a contender (where few would argue the ideal model is great trench play combined with solid-great QB play, not QB-skill position play overcoming bad trenches as the model).   

I say all the above with clear faults ID'd in my own GM, so it's not like I'm throwing stones in glass houses.    Dorsey has made some good moves in CLE - but he was also dealt the easiest hand to make good moves.   He's made a ton of bad ones, and not just in signings, but overall roster / team construction.   The seat should be warmer than it is right now.  To lay it solely at Kitchens' feet is very misleading - that's my main point here.   

Edited December 30, 2019 by Broncofan

[Leoric]

4 hours ago, lolsurebro said:

I bet he's interested in a fat wallet.

What happened to McDaniels forever being blackballed because he left the Colts at the Altar? Turns out no one cares yet again.

[Dr LBC]

20 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

God I’m glad the Bills have a good staff and front office for once.

That's the double-edge of the sword though.  If they're good enough, they're going to get poached, especially if they're flavor of the month, because too many owners are reactionary and don't bother looking at what their particular team actually needs (what traits, what attributes, etc.), they just try to copycat whatever is currently working best for other teams.

[lolsurebro]

45 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said:

What happened to McDaniels forever being blackballed because he left the Colts at the Altar? Turns out no one cares yet again.

Eh, I don't think it's that far off to see how he could benefit the Browns. They need culture change, and a good offensive mind. At first glance, one could easily look at JMcD and see the potential upside.

The Patriots militaristic approach is something the Browns would benefit from culturally, and he's been the OC for the Patriots through some very good seasons. 2+2=HC material.

The Colts debacle just seems kinda blown out of proportion anyway. He gave them a verbal answer he wasn't ready to give them and realized after talks with BB about his career direction, and reflecting on his personal life, that he was better off sticking with the Patriots organization for a while longer.

[soflbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Boltstrikes said:

What happened to McDaniels forever being blackballed because he left the Colts at the Altar? Turns out no one cares yet again.

Lets be real what makes you think that McDaniels is going to even want the job? Lets rewind to his last HC job, he forced a cutler trade because of his attitude, he dumped Brandon Marshall because of him being a diva....fast forward to the Browns and realize that those two were choir boys compared to baker and obj not to mention all the other nonsense that is in that organization. This guy wont touch this job unless the pats think he is no longer valuable as an OC. 

[Leoric]

6 hours ago, lolsurebro said:

Eh, I don't think it's that far off to see how he could benefit the Browns. They need culture change, and a good offensive mind. At first glance, one could easily look at JMcD and see the potential upside.

The Patriots militaristic approach is something the Browns would benefit from culturally, and he's been the OC for the Patriots through some very good seasons. 2+2=HC material.

The Colts debacle just seems kinda blown out of proportion anyway. He gave them a verbal answer he wasn't ready to give them and realized after talks with BB about his career direction, and reflecting on his personal life, that he was better off sticking with the Patriots organization for a while longer.

I think you misunderstood me. My point was at the time McDaniels left the Colts at the altar that he’d still be a top coaching candidate to a team looking for one. There was a lot of reactions though saying he was going to be blackballed forever and if he isn’t the Patriots HC in the future he’d never get another shot. Absolutely he’d be a decent hire for the Browns though. 

[Leoric]

5 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Lets be real what makes you think that McDaniels is going to even want the job? Lets rewind to his last HC job, he forced a cutler trade because of his attitude, he dumped Brandon Marshall because of him being a diva....fast forward to the Browns and realize that those two were choir boys compared to baker and obj not to mention all the other nonsense that is in that organization. This guy wont touch this job unless the pats think he is no longer valuable as an OC. 

I don’t see any top tier candidate taking the Browns job unless they get a guarantee similar to Gruden’s with Oakland. Browns have a long history of dumping coaches before they have a fair shot (Chud) and keeping ones (Jackson) well past the point they’ve shown you they are 100% inept. Kitchens needed to go. He wasn’t a good hire in the first place. Their other candidate was Greg Williams though. They just don’t really get the same level of people wanting the job as other teams in the hunt do. People will line up for the Dallas job, the Carolina Job,m etc. Cleveland though is going to have to give up something more to attract a decent candidate. With Dorsey remaining I doubt it’s going to be roster control so it’s going to have to be a longer guaranteed deal.