Tom Time

[DannyB]

On 1/7/2020 at 5:53 PM, Matts4313 said:

Wrong. Brady has been the highest (or top 3) paid QB multiple times in his career.

Where do you find that info? Is there a site that will go back year by year and show who makes the most by position? Legit question, it would be helpful if there was.

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, DannyB said:

Where do you find that info? Is there a site that will go back year by year and show who makes the most by position? Legit question, it would be helpful if there was.

Over the cap has the historical contracts. Tom twice before getting married took the highest paid QB contract in the NFL (IIRC). Both times he didnt hold it for long. Manning retook it and Big Ben. Again, all off memory. 

[lolsurebro]

5 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

I think I’m gonna be sick.

[mission27]

53 minutes ago, lolsurebro said:

I think I’m gonna be sick.

Brady Quinn 

[ChazStandard]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Over the cap has the historical contracts. Tom twice before getting married took the highest paid QB contract in the NFL (IIRC). Both times he didnt hold it for long. Manning retook it and Big Ben. Again, all off memory. 

...and completely wrong.

Brady was out-earned by Manning, for example, by something like 80mn dollars, through 2014 (and that's not counting the years Manning played before Brady was drafted): https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2014/11/03/tom-brady-vs-peyton-manning-earnings-over-the-years/#5fbce4fb72dc

Brady was only ever the highest paid player in the league for one year, in 2010, when a new contract a signing bonus kicked in: https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/tom-bradys-nfl-contracts-what-patriots-star-has-earned-during-19-year-career

He has played below value many times, including re-structuring the above contract in 2013: https://deadspin.com/tom-brady-signs-with-the-patriots-for-well-under-market-5986822

His willingness to re-structure means sometimes been paid less than far, far inferior players: https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/30/tom-brady-contract-nfl-patriots-salary-cap

In 2004/5, coming off his third SB, he signed a 6 year 60million contract, which wasn't anywhere close to the highest paid player in the league - Vick and Manning had both signed deals worth 100mn+ in the previous year: http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?39,953867

He said, at the time:

"To be the highest-paid, or anything like that, is not going to make me feel any better. That's not what makes me happy. In this game, the more one player gets, the more he takes away from what others can get. Is it going to make me feel any better to make an extra million, which, after taxes, is about $500,000? That million might be more important to the team.''

(source: https://www.irishcentral.com/sports/usa/tom-brady-shows-leadership-in-taking-pay-cut-for-the-patriots-193321001-238171531)

When he said this he hadn't even met Giselle yet, let alone married her.

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

...and completely wrong.

Brady was out-earned by Manning, for example, by something like 80mn dollars, through 2014 (and that's not counting the years Manning played before Brady was drafted): https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2014/11/03/tom-brady-vs-peyton-manning-earnings-over-the-years/#5fbce4fb72dc

Brady was only ever the highest paid player in the league for one year, in 2010, when a new contract a signing bonus kicked in: https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/tom-bradys-nfl-contracts-what-patriots-star-has-earned-during-19-year-career

He has played below value many times, including re-structuring the above contract in 2013: https://deadspin.com/tom-brady-signs-with-the-patriots-for-well-under-market-5986822

His willingness to re-structure means sometimes been paid less than far, far inferior players: https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/30/tom-brady-contract-nfl-patriots-salary-cap

In 2004/5, coming off his third SB, he signed a 6 year 60million contract, which wasn't anywhere close to the highest paid player in the league - Vick and Manning had both signed deals worth 100mn+ in the previous year: http://www.selectsmart.com/DISCUSS/read.php?39,953867

He said, at the time:

"To be the highest-paid, or anything like that, is not going to make me feel any better. That's not what makes me happy. In this game, the more one player gets, the more he takes away from what others can get. Is it going to make me feel any better to make an extra million, which, after taxes, is about $500,000? That million might be more important to the team.''

(source: https://www.irishcentral.com/sports/usa/tom-brady-shows-leadership-in-taking-pay-cut-for-the-patriots-193321001-238171531)

When he said this he hadn't even met Giselle yet, let alone married her.

1. Im not wrong. Reread what I said and try again. I said highest or top 3.. There were multiple times he was in that range. Or if not, extremely close to the point of splitting hairs. 
2. Restructures dont mean less money, they mean less cap hit for the year. 
3. I never debated that he took a hometown discount... read better. I said he didnt take one his entire career. 

[DannyB]

20 hours ago, lolsurebro said:

I’m not being condescending so I’m not sure why you are.

Im asking for sources because I feel like you’re reading into it too much.

The plan was to bring in Jimmy G once he was ready and Tom was done for one reason or another. Well, Jimmy is gone and I’d like to know from which press conference or interview or otherwise you’re hearing Bill say or imply he wants Tom out this year. Or am I misunderstanding you?

It's putting a lot of little things together, that individually can be easily dismissed. I can't think of everything, but it's easy to pick up on when you've been hearing the interviews, pressers, soundbites, etc over the years. Some things that come to mind.

-For years now, Bill has been noticeably lukewarm in his praise for Brady. He'll say good things, and kinda...praise him in the sense that he kinda has to to some degree, but not the effusing, gushing praise he gives plenty of other players, coaches, and personnel guys, both on the Patriots and on other teams. One case in point comes to mind, and I swear to god you can look this up...

After the Pats beat the Jaguars in the AFCCG a couple years ago, in BB's press conference, he was asked about a couple of guys in the first couple minutes. One was Amendola, who had a great game. Bill gushed for like 30 seconds (approximately ten times as long as a normal BB answer) about how tremendous of a football player Danny is. He went on adding several things to his praise when he easily could have stopped and it would have been a more-than-acceptable answer. The next questions were about Brady, and BB's demeanor and tone change significantly. Brady had gotten his hand/thumb injured during the week, and was actually questionable to play. I remember during the week I thought it was nothing, maybe Patriot shenanigans kinda overplaying it, but reports afterwards were that it was a REAL thing that could have caused problems. So the reporter asked Bill about Brady playing a good game despite the injury. I'm going to give the exact quote, and the tone is typical annoyed Bill: "I mean look, Tom did a great job and he's a tough guy, we all know that, alright? But...*2-3 seconds of silence*...I mean, not talking about open-heart surgery here." Less than 10 seconds, that's including the extended pause. I thought this was actually really bizarre. It was such a softball to just heap praise on the guy and talk about what a warrior he is. I mean it would have been so easy! He had just done it for Danny! This was only a couple months after the Wickersham piece dropped that talked about a lot of the discord going on in the organization. Seems like it would've been an easy opportunity to at least put on a harmonious facade.

So I dunno. Again, if it was just this ONE thing? Meh, easy to dismiss. But both Tom and Bill have numerous instances of not exactly glorifying each other, which is weird because they're both the best who have ever done it. I'm saying when you start noticing it, it starts to REALLY stand out.

 

-Bill has told people that (at least as of a few years ago), the 2008 season was his favorite, most rewarding one, since, even though they didn't make the playoffs, he was able to coach the Cassel-led team on the fly to 11 wins.

 

-Bill considers plays, including the QB, cogs in the machine. That's why for so long everyone talked about how Bill would treat Brady the same as every other player. In recent years this has obviously worn on Brady, and he's taken exception to it, which includes not showing up to the off season passing camps, which EVERY quarterback goes to. This can't sit well with Bill, he wants all his players to be the "fall in line" type.

 

I think there's a part of Bill that wants to move forward with his program, and a 42-year-old, year-to-year QB is holding that back.

So here's the thing, I don't think he specifically has anything against having Brady as his QB. I think they're obviously able to professionally coexist, and he knows Brady is good and can be an absolute assassin. But, I don't think he wants to pay what Brady is going to want, and he's going to want more buy-in from his QB than Brady seems willing to give. And I think Belichick has shown that he's more than okay with moving on.

Sorry if this has been kinda disjointed. Took a couple breaks, lost trains of thoughts.

[BrownLeader]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Brady can't carry an O by himself, we've seen as much this year.   So going to the best spot to have the deepest cast would make sense.   IND has the unbelievable OL, but needs a complementary WR to TY Hilton, while LAC has the receiver corps, and Henry/Ekeler, but needs a better OL (but also owns the 6 spot to draft impact OL talent).

Add it all up, I don't think a Montana/Favre redux is at all out of the question here.

or....... 2019's 2nd leading rusher, 17' league leading rusher, two 1000yd WRs, potentially his OC for 10 years, and the organization most desperate for leadership in the league?

Nah.

[HolmesPriest]

Tom Brady is going to play for the Chargers. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

or....... 2019's 2nd leading rusher, 17' league leading rusher, two 1000yd WRs, potentially his OC for 10 years, and the organization most desperate for leadership in the league?

Nah.

For better or worse I suspect CLE tying another season to Baker. 

[Gannon12]

1 hour ago, HolmesPriest said:

Justin Herbert is going to play for the Chargers. 

 

[evilflamingo]

Is there any way that the NFL could interfere if a player of Brady's caliber chose to play for the veteran minimum? 

Otherwise, with respect for players wanting to maximize earnings to set themselves and their loved ones up for the future, more people should do this, especially veteran QBs like Brady, Brees, Rodgers etc. in search of that extra championship. If they still want the money, there should be plenty of creative ways to ensure that they are still paid, especically down the line. 

[theJ]

NE doesn't have a ready option in place, and aren't in a position in the draft to take one that's ready to start.

They'll work out a deal with him, and try one more time to find his replacement while he plays out his final year or two (i think it'll be two years).

[lolsurebro]

12 hours ago, DannyB said:

It's putting a lot of little things together, that individually can be easily dismissed. I can't think of everything, but it's easy to pick up on when you've been hearing the interviews, pressers, soundbites, etc over the years. Some things that come to mind.

-For years now, Bill has been noticeably lukewarm in his praise for Brady. He'll say good things, and kinda...praise him in the sense that he kinda has to to some degree, but not the effusing, gushing praise he gives plenty of other players, coaches, and personnel guys, both on the Patriots and on other teams. One case in point comes to mind, and I swear to god you can look this up...

After the Pats beat the Jaguars in the AFCCG a couple years ago, in BB's press conference, he was asked about a couple of guys in the first couple minutes. One was Amendola, who had a great game. Bill gushed for like 30 seconds (approximately ten times as long as a normal BB answer) about how tremendous of a football player Danny is. He went on adding several things to his praise when he easily could have stopped and it would have been a more-than-acceptable answer. The next questions were about Brady, and BB's demeanor and tone change significantly. Brady had gotten his hand/thumb injured during the week, and was actually questionable to play. I remember during the week I thought it was nothing, maybe Patriot shenanigans kinda overplaying it, but reports afterwards were that it was a REAL thing that could have caused problems. So the reporter asked Bill about Brady playing a good game despite the injury. I'm going to give the exact quote, and the tone is typical annoyed Bill: "I mean look, Tom did a great job and he's a tough guy, we all know that, alright? But...*2-3 seconds of silence*...I mean, not talking about open-heart surgery here." Less than 10 seconds, that's including the extended pause. I thought this was actually really bizarre. It was such a softball to just heap praise on the guy and talk about what a warrior he is. I mean it would have been so easy! He had just done it for Danny! This was only a couple months after the Wickersham piece dropped that talked about a lot of the discord going on in the organization. Seems like it would've been an easy opportunity to at least put on a harmonious facade.

So I dunno. Again, if it was just this ONE thing? Meh, easy to dismiss. But both Tom and Bill have numerous instances of not exactly glorifying each other, which is weird because they're both the best who have ever done it. I'm saying when you start noticing it, it starts to REALLY stand out.

 

-Bill has told people that (at least as of a few years ago), the 2008 season was his favorite, most rewarding one, since, even though they didn't make the playoffs, he was able to coach the Cassel-led team on the fly to 11 wins.

 

-Bill considers plays, including the QB, cogs in the machine. That's why for so long everyone talked about how Bill would treat Brady the same as every other player. In recent years this has obviously worn on Brady, and he's taken exception to it, which includes not showing up to the off season passing camps, which EVERY quarterback goes to. This can't sit well with Bill, he wants all his players to be the "fall in line" type.

 

I think there's a part of Bill that wants to move forward with his program, and a 42-year-old, year-to-year QB is holding that back.

So here's the thing, I don't think he specifically has anything against having Brady as his QB. I think they're obviously able to professionally coexist, and he knows Brady is good and can be an absolute assassin. But, I don't think he wants to pay what Brady is going to want, and he's going to want more buy-in from his QB than Brady seems willing to give. And I think Belichick has shown that he's more than okay with moving on.

Sorry if this has been kinda disjointed. Took a couple breaks, lost trains of thoughts.

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense to some degree. I think part of it too is that the better you are, the less Bill wants to compliment you. Part of the Patriots culture is "don't believe the hype" and when you talk about the greatest QB of all time, well it gets tricky.

There was someone recently on the NFL 100 that spoke about BB (why am I not remembering his name?) and basically said it was during the pro bowl when his team punted the ball and a defender went to run past him and instead of tackling him he let him run out of bounds. Something along those lines. And on his way back to the sideline, he went to walk past Bill and Bill said something to the effect of "Are you going to just let them run? Or can't you block?" and it got into his head so bad that on the next return, he went out and tackled the returner. After the tackle he intentionally lingered around BB who wouldn't even acknowledge him and he was heated about it -- he wanted to make his point. As he started walking away, BB said "Hey... Nice tackle" or whatever. And he says "Bill coached me into making that tackle."

There are plenty of examples where BB and Brady work together a lot on things as well. They have a lot of respect for each other.

Even considering all those things, BB wants what is best for the team and if Brady is asking for more money this year I can understand the hesitation. But Kraft loves Brady.

Edited January 9, 2020 by lolsurebro

[Hunter2_1]

13 hours ago, DannyB said:

 

After the Pats beat the Jaguars in the AFCCG a couple years ago, in BB's press conference, he was asked about a couple of guys in the first couple minutes. One was Amendola, who had a great game. Bill gushed for like 30 seconds (approximately ten times as long as a normal BB answer) about how tremendous of a football player Danny is. He went on adding several things to his praise when he easily could have stopped and it would have been a more-than-acceptable answer. The next questions were about Brady, and BB's demeanor and tone change significantly. Brady had gotten his hand/thumb injured during the week, and was actually questionable to play. I remember during the week I thought it was nothing, maybe Patriot shenanigans kinda overplaying it, but reports afterwards were that it was a REAL thing that could have caused problems. So the reporter asked Bill about Brady playing a good game despite the injury. I'm going to give the exact quote, and the tone is typical annoyed Bill: "I mean look, Tom did a great job and he's a tough guy, we all know that, alright? But...*2-3 seconds of silence*...I mean, not talking about open-heart surgery here." Less than 10 seconds, that's including the extended pause. I thought this was actually really bizarre. It was such a softball to just heap praise on the guy and talk about what a warrior he is. I mean it would have been so easy! He had just done it for Danny! This was only a couple months after the Wickersham piece dropped that talked about a lot of the discord going on in the organization. Seems like it would've been an easy opportunity to at least put on a harmonious facade.

 

I see what you're saying, but this is classic Bill in the sense that he loves talking about actual football; plays, players, moment, tactics etc. He hates EVERYTHING else. Discussing one player's injury (because that's who Tom is to him, a player) that didn't actually have any bearing on the game constitutes as 'everything else'. It's like when he was asked about an Edelman off-field incident, he just shut it down worse than that. IMO - nothing to see there.

...now about Guerrero though...