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The Search for a GM


zelbell

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8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And for as much as we complain about Coleman, Treadwell isn’t any better.

There was no right answer we could have made that year if we were dead-set on taking a WR. Revisionist history would tell you Michael Thomas, Will Fuller, or Tyler Boyd. But none of those dudes were getting 1st round pub. Nobody knew those dudes (Thomas & Boyd) would be studs. It was always between Coleman/Tread/Doct.

1. Corey Coleman

2. Laquon Treadwell

3. Josh Doctson

 

All of those dudes will probably be out of football next year.

Edited by BleedTheClock
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12 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

There was no right answer we could have made that year if we were dead-set on taking a WR. Revisionist history would tell you Michael Thomas, Will Fuller, or Tyler Boyd. But none of those dudes were getting 1st round pub. Nobody knew those dudes (Thomas & Boyd) would be studs. It was always between Coleman/Tread/Doct.

1. Corey Coleman

2. Laquon Treadwell

3. Josh Doctson

 

All of those dudes will probably be out of football next year.

I liked Thomas more than the league, but anyone who says they thought he’d be what is, is lying.

And let’s be honest, playing with Brees as opposed to Kizer and for Payton as opposed to Hue isn’t irrelevant.  

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11 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

There was no right answer we could have made that year if we were dead-set on taking a WR. Revisionist history would tell you Michael Thomas, Will Fuller, or Tyler Boyd. But none of those dudes were getting 1st round pub. Nobody knew those dudes (Thomas & Boyd) would be studs. It was always between Coleman/Tread/Doct.

1. Corey Coleman

2. Laquon Treadwell

3. Josh Doctson

 

All of those dudes will probably be out of football next year.

Those were my top 3 guys coming out that year.....I didnt think Corey Coleman ran routs, I thought he and fuller were one trick pony's, Doctson wasnt in my top 5, I knew he wasnt going to be able to get open....but I was SO SURE about Tredwell :(......Boyd was my #2 outta Pittsburgh, and Thomas was my #3/#4, I thought he was going to be a VERY good #2/possession type WR....Ricky Prohle type cat....I was wrong again. 

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2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Would Watson or Mahomes or Wentz have been those same players here though?

Im not sure Wentz survives here tbh.

Mahomes has been lucky to have Reid, he’s as good as it gets, but he’s a freak.

Watson looks exactly as he did in college.  I whiffed on that one.

I obviously don't agree with these takes.  These guys may not have thrived here based on the coaching, and the surrounding talent, but to say that "we don't know what they would be like here" is kind of stretching it imo.  Those are excuses, and not very good takes if you ask me.  Those QB's look the part, and I feel strongly that they would have looked the part here too.

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2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Exactly!!

It’s what kills me when people blame Sashi entirely.  I mean, he could have taken him anyway, but Hue didn’t answer to him (thanks Jimmy) and it would have likely soured the relationship further.

Hue owns a lot of our issues imo.

I liked him, and would have taken him at 2 if no offers came in, but I was glad we didn’t have to at the time.

I liked him as a toolsy, young prospect who’d need a year or two to develop. I didn’t want any of those QB’s at one or 12 if I’m remembering correctly.

The 49 mph throw at the combine was concerning as hell.  He’s like the only guy in league history to throw that slow and be successful iirc.

I don’t like running QB’s either.  The league is unforgiving on those dudes.

Also not in agreement here.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who YOU would have taken.  And tbf, there were actual GM's other than ours that passed on these guys.  I want the guy that is ABLE to figure out (more often than not) who has the traits to be a franchise QB.  It's easy to pass the buck onto Hue, but the GM is ultimately responsible for who is taken, trades, FA, etc...

 

It's like you saying that YOU wanted Freddie....but then blaming John Dorsey when it didn't work out.  John Dorsey IS ultimately responsible for that, and is probably the main reason he is no longer here.

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1 hour ago, DaWg_LB. said:

Those were my top 3 guys coming out that year.....I didnt think Corey Coleman ran routs, I thought he and fuller were one trick pony's, Doctson wasnt in my top 5, I knew he wasnt going to be able to get open....but I was SO SURE about Tredwell :(......Boyd was my #2 outta Pittsburgh, and Thomas was my #3/#4, I thought he was going to be a VERY good #2/possession type WR....Ricky Prohle type cat....I was wrong again. 

I loved Treadwell. He was such a beast at the catch point.

I also loved Boyd as a high-end #2.

I'll be honest...I didn't think Michael Thomas was special in any way. Whoops.

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Corey coleman would have been a good nfl wr imo if he wanted to, his problem was his punk attitude, and maybe that isnt the brightest. 

He could catch and was hella quick.

32 teams were wrong about michael thomas, including the saints, he is probably the best player from the draft and ina redraft goes no.1 overall

Edited by Kiwibrown
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29 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I obviously don't agree with these takes.  These guys may not have thrived here based on the coaching, and the surrounding talent, but to say that "we don't know what they would be like here" is kind of stretching it imo.  Those are excuses, and not very good takes if you ask me.  Those QB's look the part, and I feel strongly that they would have looked the part here too.

I mean, guys like Mostert, Snead and Gabriel looked bad enough to get cut here, but manage to contribute on playoff caliber teams.

I’m sure all would have flashed huge ability, but I don’t know that anyone can say Wentz would have held up behind our line (hasn’t held up being a great one) nor do we know what Mahomes looks like without Reid and the benefit of sitting for a year.  

Im not saying they would have sucked or anything, just that you can expect a player to be exactly the same in every situation or that situation is irrelevant.

22 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Also not in agreement here.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who YOU would have taken.  And tbf, there were actual GM's other than ours that passed on these guys.  I want the guy that is ABLE to figure out (more often than not) who has the traits to be a franchise QB.  It's easy to pass the buck onto Hue, but the GM is ultimately responsible for who is taken, trades, FA, etc...

I don’t disagree, but I don’t pass the buck onto Hue, I pass it onto Jimmy.

According to reports, Watson was #1 on our board, meaning we did identify him. Other reports say Hue really wanted Hooker to throw Gregggg a bone. So what do you do here?  Force a QB on your coach when they prefer a S over that guy?  Just draft whoever the coach wants?

In a normal world one of two things happens;

1. The coach answers to the GM or vice versa.  The subordinate does what his boss instructs.  That didn’t happen here as Haslam insist on obnoxious structure where people are only accountable to him, not one another. It inevitably leads to power struggles and contempt unless...

2. The people you have in equal roles have a great working relationship and respect for each other’s roles and abilities.  I think we can agree that wasn’t the case here, on either side.

Quote

It's like you saying that YOU wanted Freddie....but then blaming John Dorsey when it didn't work out.  John Dorsey IS ultimately responsible for that, and is probably the main reason he is no longer here.

I (we) only have partial info.  I have no clue how organized, intelligent, etc Freddie is, what his work habits are like etc.  I get to base my opinions off of 16 Sundays a year (8 in Freddie’s case).  Dorsey is in the building and should know these things. I mean, think of your coworkers, you know who is and who isn’t sharp, capable of leading, would be appropriate to promote, etc. This is only magnified if a guy like DePo identifies the potential issues and they come to fruition (if that happened, just an example).

It’s no different than scouting a player.  I (we) can watch the tape and see ability, but we don’t have access to interviews with college staff etc., that let you know who that player is as a person.

JFF is a great example of that.  You can see the physical ability, kicking Alabama’s defense all over the field, etc., but we don’t hear the stories of scouts being concerned he was an actual drunk or addict until after the fact.  Those are not irrelevant facts that we’re not privy too. Without that info it’s easy to say “he’s just a red blooded American kid who likes to drink some beer in college” and dismiss the issue as some immaturity.  At the time, with what I (we) knew, he was my #2 QB behind Bridgewater.  Has I known that he’s not even on my “board”.

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3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Eh, it’s an exercise in stupidity to hold guys accountable for not only who they pick, but who they pass on, Berry or otherwise.

We also have no idea what Berry’s thoughts on any of those guys were, maybe he loved them, maybe not, but it’s presumptive.

Not sure what’s great about the tweet tbh?

Just the mental image of Stef barging on Jimmy cracks me up

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Paton’s resume speaks for itself tbh, no need to bring Berry or anyone else into the conversation imo.

We are in lockstep on this one.

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39 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Corey coleman would have been a good nfl wr imo if he wanted to, his problem was his punk attitude, and maybe that isnt the brightest. 

He could catch and was hella quick.

His hands were so questionable. Ill never forget the 4th down drop against the Steelers to seal 0-16. Him sitting in the grass with his hands covering his eyes will forever be burned in my brain. 

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, guys like Mostert, Snead and Gabriel looked bad enough to get cut here, but manage to contribute on playoff caliber teams.

I’m sure all would have flashed huge ability, but I don’t know that anyone can say Wentz would have held up behind our line (hasn’t held up being a great one) nor do we know what Mahomes looks like without Reid and the benefit of sitting for a year.  

Im not saying they would have sucked or anything, just that you can expect a player to be exactly the same in every situation or that situation is irrelevant.

I don’t disagree, but I don’t pass the buck onto Hue, I pass it onto Jimmy.

According to reports, Watson was #1 on our board, meaning we did identify him. Other reports say Hue really wanted Hooker to throw Gregggg a bone. So what do you do here?  Force a QB on your coach when they prefer a S over that guy?  Just draft whoever the coach wants?

In a normal world one of two things happens;

1. The coach answers to the GM or vice versa.  The subordinate does what his boss instructs.  That didn’t happen here as Haslam insist on obnoxious structure where people are only accountable to him, not one another. It inevitably leads to power struggles and contempt unless...

2. The people you have in equal roles have a great working relationship and respect for each other’s roles and abilities.  I think we can agree that wasn’t the case here, on either side.

I (we) only have partial info.  I have no clue how organized, intelligent, etc Freddie is, what his work habits are like etc.  I get to base my opinions off of 16 Sundays a year (8 in Freddie’s case).  Dorsey is in the building and should know these things. I mean, think of your coworkers, you know who is and who isn’t sharp, capable of leading, would be appropriate to promote, etc. This is only magnified if a guy like DePo identifies the potential issues and they come to fruition (if that happened, just an example).

It’s no different than scouting a player.  I (we) can watch the tape and see ability, but we don’t have access to interviews with college staff etc., that let you know who that player is as a person.

JFF is a great example of that.  You can see the physical ability, kicking Alabama’s defense all over the field, etc., but we don’t hear the stories of scouts being concerned he was an actual drunk or addict until after the fact.  Those are not irrelevant facts that we’re not privy too. Without that info it’s easy to say “he’s just a red blooded American kid who likes to drink some beer in college” and dismiss the issue as some immaturity.  At the time, with what I (we) knew, he was my #2 QB behind Bridgewater.  Has I known that he’s not even on my “board”.

I agree with alot of this...but you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't say on one hand that YOU didn't like a certain prospect, and say that you, therefore understand why said prospect wasn't taken (let's say Wentz for instance) and giving Sashi a pass.

While on the other hand saying YOU liked Freddie as a coach, and then condemn Dorsey for hiring him.

 

It's the same thing...and you went on to talk about how they are privy to more info, and so eloquently brought up the JFF situation.

 

Sashi is wrong for not taking Wentz and Watson, and Dorsey is wrong for hiring Freddie.  It can't be one or the other.

 

The biggest takeaway, though, is that Jimmy is a ja.ka.s

Edited by big poppa pump
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17 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I agree with alot of this...but you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't say on one hand that YOU didn't like a certain prospect, and say that you, therefore understand why said prospect wasn't taken (let's say Wentz for instance)

While on the other hand saying YOU liked Freddie as a coach, and then condemn Dorsey for hiring him.

I had/have no issue with Dorsey hiring and am on record multiple times as saying he didn’t really have a choice not to. With how our offense looked in 2018, you couldn’t let that guy out of the building. You’d hope he’d know better, but he was in an awful spot.

My issue with Dorsey as it related to Freddie is he was reportedly inclined to bring him back in 2020 (and some of the other unverified reports).

17 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

 

It's the same thing...and you went on to talk about how they are privy to more info, and so eloquently brought up the JFF situation.

I mean, by all accounts everyone had the info. Jimmy just went with his gut/homeless man and made the call.  

17 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Sashi is wrong for not taking Wentz and Dorsey is wrong for hiring Freddie.  It can't be one or the other.

It can be both.

Just as I can see the “why” behind not taking Wentz, I can also see the “why” behind hiring Freddie.

I honestly think both guys were fired for the same reason; public perception of incompetence, whether true or not, and Jimmy being frustrated by the narrative.

17 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

 

The biggest takeaway, though, is that Jimmy is a ja.ka.s

This is always the right answer.

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