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Broncos fire OC Rich Scangarello

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1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Shurmur also uses a WCO. He (via Andy Reid via mike holmgren) is part of the Bill Walsh tree much like Scangarello (via Kyle via mike). The concepts should remain fairly close.

Shows what I know lol

That's good to hear

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1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Why are people now assuming it’s some petty personal issue? Vic is 100% consumed with football. Is It so hard to believe he just had no confidence in Scangarello as an offensive coordinator? And if that ultimately led to personal issues because things weren’t going well, that’s business. It’s a major reach to compare this to McDaniels, and so is the idea of Shurmur being a “yes man”. If anything, it sounds like he wanted a coach he could trust with full autonomy over that side of the ball.

I think this is a far more likely scenario - there were numerous occasions where Fangio over-ruled Scangs during games. I suspect that he just felt he couldn't trust him to get the job done when left to his own devices.

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15 hours ago, French Fan said:


 

The more I see this team the more I am impressed by the defense. If we dismiss the New Orleans game where the Saints scored 46 pts Robert Saleh has assembled this team at the top of the NFL without anyone expecting it. Garropolo, Kittles .... are rather disappointing in their performance. Without great defense SF would not be in the NFC championship game. I really thought that the attack would be the support of SF for the future. As a result I have no regrets that Kyle Shanahan did not sign in Denver. In 3 years he the attack strategy did not impress me

FWIW, not to get too sidetracked - but JimmyG isn't likely 100 percent until next year, you don't get full explosion back from ACL reconstruction until 18 months later.   Players return and play but aren't close to their peak selves in year 1 when they get hurt in-season.     You could see it early on, and still see JimmyG not willing to throw into pressure, not trusting the knee 100 percent.   That should improve dramatically next year.    As for Kittle, he's still the best TE weapon around (Kelce if you include blocking), but he's played at least 5-6 game nowhere close to 100 percent after the knee injury.  He's just one tough SOB.    I agree the SF O isn't close to the D at peak performance, but Shanny's done a great job of dealing with JimmyG's limitations, and Kittle's injury this year.

Anyways, back to regularly scheduled programming on Scangarello / Shurmur & Elway/Fangio.....

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4 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Shurmur also uses a WCO. He (via Andy Reid via mike holmgren) is part of the Bill Walsh tree much like Scangarello (via Kyle via mike). The concepts should remain fairly close.

This is what’s being forgotten.  There will be some differences, but it’s not a complete overhaul.  Further, who is going to complain about bringing in a Holmgren/Reid offensive philosophy?  I get Broncos fans have a strong connection to the Shanahan’s because of the SB wins, but Holmgren/Reid have just as long a history of successful offensive schemes. 

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2 hours ago, germ-x said:

This is what’s being forgotten.  There will be some differences, but it’s not a complete overhaul.  Further, who is going to complain about bringing in a Holmgren/Reid offensive philosophy?  I get Broncos fans have a strong connection to the Shanahan’s because of the SB wins, but Holmgren/Reid have just as long a history of successful offensive schemes. 

Blasphemy.  If it’s not direct lineage from Mike S, via bloodline, it’s unacceptable!

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The Broncos are dysfunctional. At this point, I don’t put anything past them. Nothing, no matter how foolish or short-sighted, will surprise me.

I dislike these moves, but I dislike them because I actually think this was a nice coaching staff. 

I dont get how you can logically dislike these moves as someone that believes the entire coaching staff is a doofus factory. I have to assume that any coach out the door, for a staff that you believe so incompetent, would be a positive. Or did they just manage to sign the one guy worse than our bunch? That seems unlikely. 

Seems like your trying to make logical jumps in order to pile on. If you dislike this move, your tacitly implying that you liked the staff.

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2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I dislike these moves, but I dislike them because I actually think this was a nice coaching staff. 

I dont get how you can logically dislike these moves as someone that believes the entire coaching staff is a doofus factory. I have to assume that any coach out the door, for a staff that you believe so incompetent, would be a positive. Or did they just manage to sign the one guy worse than our bunch? That seems unlikely. 

Seems like your trying to make logical jumps in order to pile on. If you dislike this move, your tacitly implying that you liked the staff.

Agreed. Most people are upset that the continuity is gone. A fair complaint, to be sure, but quality of coach also matters. Was Scangarello a good coach? I'm not sure. The numbers wouldn't suggest he is, but the eye test showed improvement. That said, even if Shurmur boosts this offense to league average, it will a be a significant jump that should be felt immediately. That alone would seem to make it worth it.

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1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

Agreed. Most people are upset that the continuity is gone. A fair complaint, to be sure, but quality of coach also matters. Was Scangarello a good coach? I'm not sure. The numbers wouldn't suggest he is, but the eye test showed improvement. That said, even if Shurmur boosts this offense to league average, it will a be a significant jump that should be felt immediately. That alone would seem to make it worth it.

That's where I'm at. We have a new OC every year, and that's not great. But I do think Fangio and the OC need to be on the same page if we're to have success. And it doesn't hurt to have a top-notch OC that will never be promoted.

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22 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Shurmur also uses a WCO. He (via Andy Reid via mike holmgren) is part of the Bill Walsh tree much like Scangarello (via Kyle via mike). The concepts should remain fairly close.

I was doing some research and Shurmur calls his version of the WCO a “power spread.” He uses a lot more shotgun and 11 personnel than typical 21 and 22 personnel groupings employed by the Shanahan branch. Even with similar verbiage, there are some significant changes. You know more about this stuff than the rest of us, so you foresee any issues with the transition? 

What worries me is continuity, or lack thereof, that @AKRNA pointed out. Especially since things went well the final 1/4 of the season, at least we’ll relative to what we’ve become accustomed the last few years. 

Even if Scags and Vic didn’t work well together, isn’t it incumbent upon adults in a professional setting to work out their differences for the betterment of the group at large? This to me is a very McDaniels-esque move, fire people you can’t get along with and replace them with a yes-man you know from somewhere else. I’m an Associate Vice President at a financial services firm, if I fired everyone I didn’t want to go have beers with after work, a whole 110 employee company would be screwed. 

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Another aspect of this hire that has me thinking is if they’re planning on Shurmur being the heir apparent when Vic, who is on in years, hangs up his whistle. 

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1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Another aspect of this hire that has me thinking is if they’re planning on Shurmur being the heir apparent when Vic, who is on in years, hangs up his whistle. 

That is a possibility - but there is no evidence for it. It is very possible that Shurmur has come to the conclusion, like Wade Phillips, that he is a poor HC but a damned good OC - and he came to the Broncos because of the potential he saw on the offensive side of the ball.

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On 1/17/2020 at 12:47 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

I was doing some research and Shurmur calls his version of the WCO a “power spread.” He uses a lot more shotgun and 11 personnel than typical 21 and 22 personnel groupings employed by the Shanahan branch. Even with similar verbiage, there are some significant changes. You know more about this stuff than the rest of us, so you foresee any issues with the transition? 

 

He called it a power spread in Minnesota as well when he used a heavy dose of 12/21/22 personnel (47% his last year). Regardless of personnel he works to create space with route design which does differ from the Shanahan branch which uses a lot of bunch formations and misdirection. Both rely heavily on play action. He also was definitely an early adopter of RPOs (likely due to being kept on in philly when Chip Kelly took over. 
 

as for the power/zone OL spectrum he favors more power (though coached heavy zone in Minnesota and under Kelly) which probably favors our current roster a little better.

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I mean, I don't want to be that guy - but it could be worse.   At least Shurmur is a solid OC with a proven track record of success and a record of adaptability.  We could have gone with Garrett as OC.    If Shurmur wasn't available, I'm not sure the current crop of available OC's would have led to the move. 

I get the angst about the timing and the break in continuity....but again, this is a call Fangio's making.   For better or worse, this is pretty much on him.

Edited by Broncofan

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