jolly red giant Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 16 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: I might be reading too much into this buuuuut..... The coaching staff currently is largely old school veterans. Fangio, Donatell, Munchak and even Elway as GM. Scangaerllo was the only 'young newbie'. I think this whole staff of veterans want to win now and don't know how long of a window they all have, especially Elway with the potential new ownership changes. I think a lot of this hire is because they didn't want to waste anymore time trying to win and can no longer go with unproven guys. I am going to dispute this one - the senior Denver coaches are not particularly old and I think they would dispute that they are. While many HCs and coordinators etc are younger than the Broncos staff - Shurmur is 53 - there are a large number that are older and some significantly older (now in their 70s). In fact many of the successful HCs this year are around Fangio's age (61) - of the teams that played last weekend - John Harbaugh - 57 Bill O'Brien - 50 Matt LeFleur - 40 Andy Reid - 61 Mike Vrabel - 44 Pete Carroll - 68 Kyle Shanahan - 40 Mike Zimmer - 63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Jesus. How on earth is Carroll 7 years older than Reid. Lifestyle choices make such a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: I totally agree with all of this. I've waited a few days to comment because in truth, I was really, really, really p*ssed off when this news broke. I thought Rich got better as the year went on, especially when you consider the QB changes, the constant OL shuffling, starting WR traded and our lack of experience from the rest of our pass catchers. Sure, getting Shurmur is exciting but as Ben eluded to above - if this doesn't work out, Vic absolutely has to be held accountable. It's interesting that several Bronco beat writers (Klis, Jhabvala, Renck) all mentioned within 2 hours of the news breaking that the Broncos thought Coach Rich struggled after the 15 play script disappeared. Some of you may remember that this was a criticism I had of our Offense early in the year; we had the worst 2nd half Offense in the entire NFL at the half way stage of the season. I felt like we improved on this as the year went on, in particular when Lock came in, but clearly our Brain Trust disagreed. With hindsight, it's clear there was a personality clash between Vic and Rich. The former made a fair few subtle jabs at our playcalling, including Vic overruling calls at times. That said, we did improve with a competent QB at the helm so this change definitely puts a target on Vic's back. Hope he's ready for that. The good news is that Shurmur has been so bad in both of his HC gigs that I doubt he's getting another shot for (at the very least) 3 years. That should hopefully give us some much needed continuity (what we thought we had a week ago ....) You're doing better than I am. I'm waiting until I know what other staff changes are being made. For the quick relief of a better play caller I think we may have really screwed the pooch in other facets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, AKRNA said: You're doing better than I am. I'm waiting until I know what other staff changes are being made. For the quick relief of a better play caller I think we may have really screwed the pooch in other facets. such as....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said: such as....? Like I said, I'm waiting until the final shoe drops and we know what other staff changes will be made. One thing I don't like, regardless of staff changes is the change in WC philosophy from the Shanahan version to the Reid version. We've got a great young core that are well suited to Scangarellos'/Shanahans philosophy. Not so much the Reid version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 47 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Like I said, I'm waiting until the final shoe drops and we know what other staff changes will be made. One thing I don't like, regardless of staff changes is the change in WC philosophy from the Shanahan version to the Reid version. We've got a great young core that are well suited to Scangarellos'/Shanahans philosophy. Not so much the Reid version. The one guy who loses out bigtime is Janovich. Shurmur favors 11 personnel and really has traditionally ignored the FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Broncofan said: The one guy who loses out bigtime is Janovich. Shurmur favors 11 personnel and really has traditionally ignored the FB. While that was true during his giants tenure, in Minnesota he used the FB 16% of the time (6th most in the league) I think that shows he’s able to adapt to his personnel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: While that was true during his giants tenure, in Minnesota he used the FB 16% of the time (6th most in the league) I think that shows he’s able to adapt to his personnel Good call - it’s not like it’s a back breaker but adaptability is always good to see. His lean to shotgun and 3-wide sets where he’s been, though - it would be shocking given the draft depth if we didn’t invest a top 2 pick at WR. I wouldn’t be surprised if we double dipped later and even triple dipped in mid level FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Good call - it’s not like it’s a back breaker but adaptability is always good to see. His lean to shotgun and 3-wide sets where he’s been, though - it would be shocking given the draft depth if we didn’t invest a top 2 pick at WR. I wouldn’t be surprised if we double dipped later and even triple dipped in mid level FA. I agree. I don’t see us going into TC with Hamilton and Tim Patrick penciled in as the 2/3 respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) I think this move solidifies WR as the team's most critical need. You already needed to find a couple receivers but in an offense that's a lot more open and dependent on individual athletes making plays in space, it's gong to be even more glaring of a weakness. Tim Patrick and DaeSean Hamilton are not going to cut it. You probably still want the burner, but you also want to look for YAC guys. Who can turn 5 yards into 13? Edited January 15, 2020 by BroncoBruin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I get the WR stuff and the depth in the draft, but I think Denver has to add an at least solid upside #2 type in FA if they want to take a quick leap and not have WR dictate what they have to do on draft day. Again, I get it’s a deep class, but if Denver doesn’t add 1 solid FA (and by solid a guy they project to be at worst their #3 WR) then they’re leaving themselves at the mercy of the draft and making WR so much of a need they have to select 1 and potentially reach for one in the top 2 rounds. Further, we were spoiled this year in rookie WR production. Typically it takes 2-3 years for players to show their potential/hit their stride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, germ-x said: I get the WR stuff and the depth in the draft, but I think Denver has to add an at least solid upside #2 type in FA if they want to take a quick leap and not have WR dictate what they have to do on draft day. Again, I get it’s a deep class, but if Denver doesn’t add 1 solid FA (and by solid a guy they project to be at worst their #3 WR) then they’re leaving themselves at the mercy of the draft and making WR so much of a need they have to select 1 and potentially reach for one in the top 2 rounds. Further, we were spoiled this year in rookie WR production. Typically it takes 2-3 years for players to show their potential/hit their stride. Agreed - I don’t think it’s realistic to get a top tier guy but a Higgins / Dorsett type I’m all for. To let the rookies develop at their own pace. To be clear though it’s not an either / or approach. Elway & co. should hit WR in the draft early and in FA. Edited January 15, 2020 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 6:33 AM, lomaxgrUK said: I totally agree with all of this. I've waited a few days to comment because in truth, I was really, really, really p*ssed off when this news broke. I thought Rich got better as the year went on, especially when you consider the QB changes, the constant OL shuffling, starting WR traded and our lack of experience from the rest of our pass catchers. Sure, getting Shurmur is exciting but as Ben eluded to above - if this doesn't work out, Vic absolutely has to be held accountable. It's interesting that several Bronco beat writers (Klis, Jhabvala, Renck) all mentioned within 2 hours of the news breaking that the Broncos thought Coach Rich struggled after the 15 play script disappeared. Some of you may remember that this was a criticism I had of our Offense early in the year; we had the worst 2nd half Offense in the entire NFL at the half way stage of the season. I felt like we improved on this as the year went on, in particular when Lock came in, but clearly our Brain Trust disagreed. With hindsight, it's clear there was a personality clash between Vic and Rich. The former made a fair few subtle jabs at our playcalling, including Vic overruling calls at times. That said, we did improve with a competent QB at the helm so this change definitely puts a target on Vic's back. Hope he's ready for that. The good news is that Shurmur has been so bad in both of his HC gigs that I doubt he's getting another shot for (at the very least) 3 years. That should hopefully give us some much needed continuity (what we thought we had a week ago ....) I agree with you guys. To me it's a little frustrating and in line with where the organization has had such issues to have a plan one offseason and totally bail on it the next. Essentially no patience or long term plan. Obviously this young, first time OC was going to have growing pains and if you hire him I expect you to invest in him and give him time. I'm cool with Shurmur but I just think this is in line with a lot of the decisions I've hated over the years. Feel bad for Rich. But I suppose we upgraded so we'll see 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Fan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, champ11 said: I agree with you guys. To me it's a little frustrating and in line with where the organization has had such issues to have a plan one offseason and totally bail on it the next. Essentially no patience or long term plan. Obviously this young, first time OC was going to have growing pains and if you hire him I expect you to invest in him and give him time. I'm cool with Shurmur but I just think this is in line with a lot of the decisions I've hated over the years. Feel bad for Rich. But I suppose we upgraded so we'll see Dallas Cowboys invested so much in Jason GARRETT during almost 10 years for what ? 3 division titles / record 0-3 Post Season / 3 times 10+ W / 4 season 8-8 / 1 losing season / 85w 68 L/ The cowboys are the perfect exemple why 1 team doesn't want to invest in o,ne pers. The OC/HC need to succeed in 2 years . The 1st yea to make some splash and the 2nd must materialize what the OC/HC sees the things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Further changes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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