New Derek Carr thread

[NCOUGHMAN]

7 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I'm not saying he never wants to see a 50/50 ball, just that it's not going to be a huge part of his offense.

Oh ok I agree then. But I think gruden expects carr to take calculated risks especially if it a favorable matchup. I think he designs plays just to get favorable matchups 

Edited February 5, 2020 by NCOUGHMAN

[NCOUGHMAN]

people complain about us not having ab but in his game vs Mia he wasn’t wide open for a majority of his catches esp the td. You y’all think carr would even attempt these throws esp the td? Or would he not consider ab open enough?

[Dessie]

7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

What irks me, and I guess a few others Bay Raider is that you're clearly a reasonably informed poster, raising some great points, well written and interesting takes, however its things like the above which are just nonsense and you must know that and post it anyway just to be inflammatory, either that or its dishonest. I trust it's the former. 

Good post. 

[Rich7sena]

16 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I agree, Bucky is one of my least favorite media scouts by far. Some of his takes over the years has been off by a country mile.

However, the point is, this is indeed how almost all non-Raider fans look at Carr. Mediocre. They have zero bias. Which the Carr supporters can't seem to admit any flaws in him. He's massively conservative, been that way since college, below average pocket presence, below average football IQ, limited mobility, will only throw to wide open targets, and he is terrible under pressure unless it's just a play here and there, under consistent pressure he loses all confidence.

He's very mediocre.

I really don't care what anyone thinks about Carr when I've actually watched the film. If I haven't watched the film, I'd feel comfortable deferring to someone I trust.

Also, your critiques aren't true. This season, he was good under pressure, good in the pocket, and he did show very good football IQ pre-snap. If you keep comparing him to Patrick Mahomes you're going to be consistently disappointed--just like 90% of the quarterbacks in the NFL.

Carr's weaknesses are well-defined: he's a linear athlete who is generally not a threat to pick up yards with his feet or make plays late in the down; he's not confident in making layered throws over defenders; and he is sometimes prone to make untimely mistakes (see goalline fumbles).

But his strengths are also well-defined: He is very good at getting the ball out quick and allowing his receivers to make plays after the catch; he has very good arm talent (strength + accuracy); he's generally a good decision maker and better than most NFL starters; and he's reasonably fast in a straight line.

[Devilshark69]

Great post above that quite a few of us probably appreciated, Carr “supporters” do NOT fail to mention his faults, no one has called him a hall of famer. However Carr “haters” throw terms like scrub or worse, which simply isn’t true. Lol all we want is if the plan is change.... better be a change for the better.  Christ I read an article a week ago about how we should go after Winston cuz chucky wants more “aggressive “ throws. That’s hilarious and not very accurate for anyone that understands Gruden and a wco. I mean really? Lol yeah , he had 30 tds...and 30 picks! Oh yeah, Gruden would love that. Lmfao!!!  Brady might be an improvement....for 2yrs! Lol! Maybe Flacco when he gets cut? Lol! Newton on a trade? Lol.... give up picks for what? His past? Cuz his future is certainly questionable. Lol maybe a rookie but not to start this year, in a new city , with the hopes of the nation squarely on your back? That’s definitely a bad idea. Not much pressure there.lol  BTW, talking to people like they’re football simpletons on this forum is pretty hilarious wile e coyote. I’ve been on this forum for almost 15 yrs and everyone seems pretty intelligent and knowledgeable about the game. Just differences of opinion mostly (and maybe a little youthful over exuberance.lol) ok, done with my rant.

[BayRaider]

I think we are making progress here. Let’s take away the terms Carr supporter and Carr hater. I don’t think Carr is a scrub. I don’t hate him. However, I have a lot of criticism and a lot of it is warranted. 
 

I have no problem giving Carr credit on many things. 
 

Pros: 

- Tremendous Release, top 5 in the league. 

- Tremendous Arm

- Grade A Short Level Accuracy Under 10 yards (guys open)

- Grade B Medium Level Accuracy 11-20 yards (guys open). 

- Solid A+ No issues type of character. 

Neutral: 

- Slightly above average processing speed.

 - Good straight line speed (let’s not mistake this for mobility, agility, extending plays, or escaping pressure though)

Cons:

- Poor situational awareness. Throwing short of the chains on 3rd, well short, throwing away on 4th down, does not get aggressive down two scores. Very content. Multiple coaching staffs. 
 

- Poor Pocket Presence. Does not have a good feel in the pocket if any defender looks like they are winning even a little bit. He will rush his reads, make a poor decision, or drop the ball off too soon for a minimal gain that will stall the drive whether it causes a 3rd and long or a punt. 
 

- Panics/Happy Feet Under Pressure. No, not all QBs have this. It’s not in many college scouting reports. That year was just him and Jimmy. And it’s followed both to the NFL. This year you’ll see it in Herberts scouting profile. He uses his feet and abandons footwork way to soon and gets way too paranoid under pressure. Also, with consistent pressure, he loses confidence really quickly. 
 

- Poor in cold weather. Some QBs have their stuff in cold weather and some don’t. Carr would be a solid in Indy. That whole division is mostly dome/warm weather as long as you don’t meet Tenn in Dec.

- Poor mobility escaping pressure and extending plays. Terrible lateral movement and sense of pressure.  

- Is not able to make anticipation and timing throws. This is crucial at the NFL level, and especially for a west coast offense like Jon Gruden. I do not think Carr belongs in a west coast offense. 
 

- Will not throw into tight windows. This is because he can’t. This is also completely needed in the NFL in most styles of offenses. There is only a few examples of Carr doing this, one being at the Pro Bowl. Carr is designed for a system that schemes WRs wide open. Musgraves offense was a good fit for him. 

This is also why when our cast doesn’t get monster type separation on plays, Carr just shuts down. Vikings and Jets games, those are on Carr. Guys still have a good step on their man, but Carr is not that type of QB. Against those type of smothering defenses Carr just shuts down completely. It’s much more on Carr than the WRs. 
 

- Average to Below Average Football IQ. I think Carr is pretty good pre snap and reading coverages pre snap but he gets fooled by disguised coverage easily, which leads to a quick panic drop off, and also fails to recognize the coverage in real time. His brain just doesn’t solve problems that fast (NFL speed fast). 
 

- Average to below average deep accuracy
 

- One of the very few QBs to not have an alpha personality. He’s sensitive, he’s passive aggressive, and just seems mentally weak. 
 

I personally don’t think he’s the QB for us but he’s not terrible. I have him ranked around 20-21 out of 32. 
 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by BayRaider

[NJ Raider]

All of those cons tell the story of a physically talented qb with issues that prevent him from being playoff caliber. Many of them are not fixable at this point. It's just disappointing since he has his moments but his lows are very low. You can't really blame those cons on his supporting cast either 

[G]

16 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Dont agree with this at all, just totally incorrect.

Pretty much every one here knows he has faults and readily admit them. Some are obvious, some we think can be schemed out, some improved and some will always be there, the difference is we dont see every other QB as an improvement, we see their faults too. Sometimes its better the devil you know.

Can we improve upon Carr? Yes.

Will we be able to easily? Maybe, maybe not.

Can we get worse than Carr? Most assuredly yes.

What irks me, and I guess a few others Bay Raider is that you're clearly a reasonably informed poster, raising some great points, well written and interesting takes, however its things like the above which are just nonsense and you must know that and post it anyway just to be inflammatory, either that or its dishonest. I trust it's the former. 

It's why I don't post replies to him when it's DC related. Times I want to bonk him on the head and call him names like he does others but he has great posts elsewhere so I know he's a quality poster but so DC focused/obsessed I just move on. He probably doesn't care but if it's just DC (removed after reading Bay's post above) posting and not any of his (removed after reading Bay's post above)  they'll say it's because we've got nothing to say. When it's just obvious were all entrenched and not going to change our minds until those in charge either stay with Carr or move on. Can't remember the fanbase being like this, but it's probably for the best as adversity makes us stronger and thins the herd. At some point (hopefully soon) we will unite and be stronger for this but until then...OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!! LOL

Edited February 6, 2020 by G

[bucksavage1]

Does anyone seriously believe Derek Carr has enough in him to keep up with Patrick Mahomes?

 

If the answer is no, then we need to move on and work on a plan for someone who can. 

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Does anyone seriously believe Derek Carr has enough in him to keep up with Patrick Mahomes?

 

If the answer is no, then we need to move on and work on a plan for someone who can. 

I believe we are positioned to build a well rounded team that can keep up with KC, maybe not next year, but once they give Mahommes 40+.
They will most likely have the QB advantage (no matter who our QB), but if we draft well we should have the better team advantage. 
I agree that having the QB advantage is huge in football, but, unfortunately it looks like KC may have that advantage regardless of who our qb is. 

I know you are very into the QB position, but truthfully I dont Care if Mahommes is better than Derek Carr, or the best QB in the league. I want to know how we can build a team that can compete against his KC team. To me it starts with LBers that can cover a TE, and speed in the secondary. 

The question should be, does anyone seriously beleive the Raiders can keep up with KC. . . and if we continue to draft well and make good FA pick ups then yes absolutely i think we can. 
you keep worrying about Mahommes vs Carr, but ultimately it is a team sport. 

[G]

4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Does anyone seriously believe Derek Carr has enough in him to keep up with Patrick Mahomes?

 

If the answer is no, then we need to move on and work on a plan for someone who can. 

No one, even a young Tom Brady can keep up with Mahomes. Brett Favre will win some lose some but Pat and Andy will be hard to beat. Only mistakes will beat them and bountygate ball. Brady and Bill were great because the system worked with them and they worked within the system. Jimmy G would look like Brady had they kept him. Jacoby was a beast in that system and showed with Indy he's got something but not what NE creates. KC won games with their back up QB so maybe Andy is the problem and the real question is can Gruden keep up with Andy?!? We know the Hunt's have surpassed Mark on every level. Gruden's signing was a perfect example of not being able to wait to open the Christmas present and play with it. Del Rio should have been the coach these two seasons and Mack should have been resigned and if we didn't win a playoff game in those years we'd enter Vegas with Gruden as the new coach and then Mayock. The good news is we have a very good draft because Mark couldn't wait. Mark is one of the worst owners in the NFL but doesn't meddle as much as Al did. Mark is the son of a great owner who controlled everything. Mark has people he trusts and listens to them because of his father's past. It's not his baby but he inherited it. Hopefully the Vegas money makes Mark offers he can't refuse as it all starts at the top. 

PS I drafted Tua several times in fanspeak because I think 'he could' be a great one like Pat but only if he stay's healthy. I'd have him sit behind Carr and only a playoff win could keep Carr over Tua in 2021. A losing season and I'd let Carr go for best offer and just hope Tua learned enough to have a winning season. Trading up costs too much draft capital and I'm good with building a team to push for the playoffs and maybe get a QB in 3rd to develop and push Carr.

[BayRaider]

Just now, BackinBlack said:

I believe we are positioned to build a well rounded team that can keep up with KC, maybe not next year, but once they give Mahommes 40+.
They will most likely have the QB advantage (no matter who our QB), but if we draft well we should have the better team advantage. 
I agree that having the QB advantage is huge in football, but, unfortunately it looks like KC may have that advantage regardless of who our qb is. 

I know you are very into the QB position, but truthfully I dont Care if Mahommes is better than Derek Carr, or the best QB in the league. I want to know how we can build a team that can compete against his KC team. To me it starts with LBers that can cover a TE, and speed in the secondary. 

The question should be, does anyone seriously beleive the Raiders can keep up with KC. . . and if we continue to draft well and make good FA pick ups then yes absolutely i think we can. 
you keep worrying about Mahommes vs Carr, but ultimately it is a team sport. 

Fully agree it’s a team sport but you definitely need to close the gap when it comes to QB. Example, Niners are Top to Bottom a better roster than the Chiefs. #2 Defense, #4 Offense, better OL, better run game, better everything just about. Chiefs #17 Defense, #1 Offense, and don’t have the advantage over the Niners at any position minus QB and WRs. Literally. Safety I’d say tie, CBs tie, LBs 49ers, DL 49ers by a country mile, OL absolutely 49ers, RBs 49ers, TE 49ers (Kittle slightly over Kelce), and WRs Chiefs. 
 

The problem is Jimmy is right around on par Carr. Maybe the 17th or 18th best QB in the league. Gap has to be closer. 

[MrOaktown_56]

10 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I believe we are positioned to build a well rounded team that can keep up with KC, maybe not next year, but once they give Mahommes 40+.
They will most likely have the QB advantage (no matter who our QB), but if we draft well we should have the better team advantage. 
I agree that having the QB advantage is huge in football, but, unfortunately it looks like KC may have that advantage regardless of who our qb is. 

I know you are very into the QB position, but truthfully I dont Care if Mahommes is better than Derek Carr, or the best QB in the league. I want to know how we can build a team that can compete against his KC team. To me it starts with LBers that can cover a TE, and speed in the secondary. 

The question should be, does anyone seriously beleive the Raiders can keep up with KC. . . and if we continue to draft well and make good FA pick ups then yes absolutely i think we can. 
you keep worrying about Mahommes vs Carr, but ultimately it is a team sport. 

If your goal is to beat KC, build a roster as good or better than theirs. If we still can't win, aggressively attack the qb position. It's not complicated.

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Fully agree it’s a team sport but you definitely need to close the gap when it comes to QB. Example, Niners are Top to Bottom a better roster than the Chiefs. #2 Defense, #4 Offense, better OL, better run game, better everything just about. Chiefs #17 Defense, #1 Offense, and don’t have the advantage over the Niners at any position minus QB and WRs. Literally. Safety I’d say tie, CBs tie, LBs 49ers, DL 49ers by a country mile, OL absolutely 49ers, RBs 49ers, TE 49ers (Kittle slightly over Kelce), and WRs Chiefs. 
 

The problem is Jimmy is right around on par Carr. Maybe the 17th or 18th best QB in the league. Gap has to be closer. 

I agree, and without watching a ton of Jimmy G ive never been all that impressed with his play. Id keep Carr over him, partially salary relate, partially homer in me haha. 
But I dont think anyone would say that Jimmy G could keep up to Mahommes, yet, his team was 8 mins away from the superbowl. That was my point. 
Mahommes has to play the Raiders Defense, Carr has to play KCs D, they arent the same. 

Carr can keep up to Mahommes, if we improve our D and limit his success. Kind of how the niners made mahommes seem beatable for the first 3 quarters. 

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If your goal is to beat KC, build a roster as good or better than theirs. If we still can't win, aggressively attack the qb position. It's not complicated.

that is where I am at. I want to see another Mayock draft class that is BPA sprinkled in with our team needs.