G Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: I believe we are positioned to build a well rounded team that can keep up with KC, maybe not next year, but once they give Mahommes 40+. They will most likely have the QB advantage (no matter who our QB), but if we draft well we should have the better team advantage. I agree that having the QB advantage is huge in football, but, unfortunately it looks like KC may have that advantage regardless of who our qb is. I know you are very into the QB position, but truthfully I dont Care if Mahommes is better than Derek Carr, or the best QB in the league. I want to know how we can build a team that can compete against his KC team. To me it starts with LBers that can cover a TE, and speed in the secondary. The question should be, does anyone seriously beleive the Raiders can keep up with KC. . . and if we continue to draft well and make good FA pick ups then yes absolutely i think we can. you keep worrying about Mahommes vs Carr, but ultimately it is a team sport. NOAH IGBINOGHENE if he is there with our 3rd to cover Hill and Simmion to Cover TE's. Dye if he was there in the 3rd so Simmions can rover to the Defense instead of just being man to man. 12) LB Simmions 19) a WR 80) CB Igbinoghene 81) LB Dye 91) I might wait for Dye here if there was a WR that fell to 81 that the value was to good to pass up. If any of the top QB's slipped I'm good with that above WR. Really so many options depending on who's falling and what we already took. A run stuffing DT even?!? 118) If we have already got 2 LB's and two WR's then Guard or oline depth, maybe a RB... Not the draft thread but trying to show how fluid it all is and how good of a team we could build around Carr and still be able to move on if he doesn't progress to the playoffs. As Bay said about making 'progress' I like his track background and what this artice says about him...https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/prospects-for-jags-fans-to-watch-auburn-cb-noah-igbinoghene/ar-BBZylCf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: Does anyone seriously believe Derek Carr has enough in him to keep up with Patrick Mahomes? If the answer is no, then we need to move on and work on a plan for someone who can. How did teams manage to keep up with Marino or Moon or Favre or Manning etc. Sometimes you dont fight fire with fire. Mahomes is a very good QB for sure but he's very far from being unbeatable, he showed in the SB to be capable of some very poor play and mistakes. Build a very strong team first and foremost, trust in the coaching and the scheme - if you believe in Gruden, which us at this point s question mark IMO. There are no outstanding teams in the NFL anymore but a bunch if good ones. It's a good time to be a Raider fan as opposed to the last 20 years 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 hours ago, BayRaider said: Fully agree it’s a team sport but you definitely need to close the gap when it comes to QB. Example, Niners are Top to Bottom a better roster than the Chiefs. #2 Defense, #4 Offense, better OL, better run game, better everything just about. Chiefs #17 Defense, #1 Offense, and don’t have the advantage over the Niners at any position minus QB and WRs. Literally. Safety I’d say tie, CBs tie, LBs 49ers, DL 49ers by a country mile, OL absolutely 49ers, RBs 49ers, TE 49ers (Kittle slightly over Kelce), and WRs Chiefs. The problem is Jimmy is right around on par Carr. Maybe the 17th or 18th best QB in the league. Gap has to be closer. I think you’re forgetting about Shanahan’s play calling in the last 2 and half minutes. They had all their time outs and 2 min warning but they still tried to air it out. It’s the same thing he’d did against NE a few years ago. Personally I think that’s what made them lose not their QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Darbsk said: How did teams manage to keep up with Marino or Moon or Favre or Manning etc. Sometimes you dont fight fire with fire. Mahomes is a very good QB for sure but he's very far from being unbeatable, he showed in the SB to be capable of some very poor play and mistakes. Build a very strong team first and foremost, trust in the coaching and the scheme - if you believe in Gruden, which us at this point s question mark IMO. There are no outstanding teams in the NFL anymore but a bunch if good ones. It's a good time to be a Raider fan as opposed to the last 20 years 😀 Ummm for the most part other hof QBs won superbowls the years those guys played. So it kinda was fire vs fire. He dont got to be as good as mahommes. But he can't be what he is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 23 hours ago, dante9876 said: Some what but not as much as people want to believe. I think musgrave played to his strengths. Cooper made plays for him when the ball was in his hand. Only thing i think he did more of was throw more contested throws to Crabtree. As far as throwing to a spot or anticipating throws or throwing wrs open. I think he has minimal improvement on those things. So his coach helped scheme things open, Cooper made plays and he trusted Crabtree. I mean, most successful QBs have these things going for them. Only the elite of the elite are going to ball without these conditions, I don’t think anyone in this forum thinks Carr is on that level. Carr is a guy who needs help around him, just like 95% of the rest of the league. He has the arm talent and skill set to be successful in the right conditions. Does he frustrate sometimes, yes! But he’s also proven he can lead us to the playoffs. My point is(and a lot of guys won’t get it, or Refuse to reason because Carr is the worst QB In the league, and we can find an upgrade at the local liquor store) is that we are one or two pieces and a healthy off season to have all we need on offense, with a ton of assets left to fix the defense. We are closer than most think, so instead of trading the farm for a QB, or drafting a QB high and stashing him for a year. Why not complete the roster, see what Carr can do with a legit roster and if he fails, we have a talented roster going into 2021 with a bunch of guys on rookie deals, and only a QB away from making a run. We then would have a lot less holes, and would be able to target our guy in the draft. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 hours ago, Darbsk said: How did teams manage to keep up with Marino or Moon or Favre or Manning etc. Sometimes you dont fight fire with fire. Mahomes is a very good QB for sure but he's very far from being unbeatable, he showed in the SB to be capable of some very poor play and mistakes. Build a very strong team first and foremost, trust in the coaching and the scheme - if you believe in Gruden, which us at this point s question mark IMO. There are no outstanding teams in the NFL anymore but a bunch if good ones. It's a good time to be a Raider fan as opposed to the last 20 years 😀 This isn't 1990-2000s. QB is more important than ever before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, dante9876 said: Ummm for the most part other hof QBs won superbowls the years those guys played. So it kinda was fire vs fire. He dont got to be as good as mahommes. But he can't be what he is now. I watched most of those games and it wasn't uncommon for all these guys to be shut down by great D or outplayed by systems and guys like Phil Simms. Now, I know that the game has changed but usually the best overall team including the coaching will triumph. Its quite conceivable that the 49ers could and shoukd have won with Garroppolo playing poorly for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: This isn't 1990-2000s. QB is more important than ever before That's why I included Manning, possibly the best regular season QB. He only won 1 SB with all their offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 11 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: If your goal is to beat KC, build a roster as good or better than theirs. If we still can't win, aggressively attack the qb position. It's not complicated. Starts 1st with a better QB. Carr doesn't make enough plays while Mahomes is the complete opposite. Carr doesn't even make enough plays to matchup vs Drew Lcok 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Geezy said: So his coach helped scheme things open, Cooper made plays and he trusted Crabtree. I mean, most successful QBs have these things going for them. Only the elite of the elite are going to ball without these conditions, I don’t think anyone in this forum thinks Carr is on that level. Carr is a guy who needs help around him, just like 95% of the rest of the league. He has the arm talent and skill set to be successful in the right conditions. Does he frustrate sometimes, yes! But he’s also proven he can lead us to the playoffs. My point is(and a lot of guys won’t get it, or Refuse to reason because Carr is the worst QB In the league, and we can find an upgrade at the local liquor store) is that we are one or two pieces and a healthy off season to have all we need on offense, with a ton of assets left to fix the defense. We are closer than most think, so instead of trading the farm for a QB, or drafting a QB high and stashing him for a year. Why not complete the roster, see what Carr can do with a legit roster and if he fails, we have a talented roster going into 2021 with a bunch of guys on rookie deals, and only a QB away from making a run. We then would have a lot less holes, and would be able to target our guy in the draft. This is what you fail to see Carr needs to get his mojo back, you can have 3 HOF WR's running routes, but at the first sign of pressure Carr is dancing around scared, not waiting for plays to develop and still afraid to use his feet when needed, lost confidence in throwing deep which wasn't his strong suite anyway. He is mentally weak now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 mahomes to me is like when Denver had Elway, always gonna have an advantage at qb while either is healthy. a good to great offense can control clock and keep him off the field, but only a great defense can keep them at 28 pts or less. balance is necessary for sure, nothing we don't know. its kinda like eddie murphy talking about a cracker, if you`re starving . DC is the best we`ve had in awhile, not great but solid to good at times. does he frustrate me at times? y`all have no idea how much the KC mindf*$k bothers me, I want to beat the holy crap outta no team more than KC. so in my mind IF hes the starter this year, he better beat them at least once or im done, that's as simple as that, mechanics, arm talent ,unwillingness to scramble...whatever, none of that will matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Darbsk said: That's why I included Manning, possibly the best regular season QB. He only won 1 SB with all their offense. Rodgers has 1, Brees has 1, Marino has 0. There are different ways to win. If you have the elite QB, you'll be a contender for most of his career and could win a SB. If you don't, you can still build a SB winning team but you won't be a contender for long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, raidr4life said: This is what you fail to see Carr needs to get his mojo back, you can have 3 HOF WR's running routes, but at the first sign of pressure Carr is dancing around scared, not waiting for plays to develop and still afraid to use his feet when needed, lost confidence in throwing deep which wasn't his strong suite anyway. He is mentally weak now. 8 minutes ago, raidr4life said: This is what you fail to see Carr needs to get his mojo back, you can have 3 HOF WR's running routes, but at the first sign of pressure Carr is dancing around scared, not waiting for plays to develop and still afraid to use his feet when needed, lost confidence in throwing deep which wasn't his strong suite anyway. He is mentally weak now. I mean, Carr’s played with one HOFer On offense and he plays Center. He played pretty well with Coop and Crab(two of his best seasons were with Carr) Our deep threat in ‘19 was Rico Gafford. Edited February 6, 2020 by Geezy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, Geezy said: I mean, Carr’s played with one HOFer On offense and he plays Center. He played pretty well with Coop and Crab(two of his best seasons were with Carr) Our deep threat in ‘19 was Rico Gafford. Ugh man he is not 2016 Carr anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Ugh man he is not 2016 Carr anymore. Yea and neither are his WRs, so let’s get weapons and see who he truly is. Last year he had Renfrow a 5th round steal as his go to guy, A hurt TW, Zay Jones, Keelan Doss, Rico Gafford, Trevor Davis etc...come on man Edited February 6, 2020 by Geezy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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