2021 Draft Thread

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Cashman is Herndon at LB without a quality season of tape. Cant count on him being healthy. 

I'd agree with that

[Dr.O]

DJ has us taking Zach Wilson and Travis Entienne in his first mock

[jetsfan4life51]

Just now, Dr.O said:

DJ has us taking Zach Wilson and Travis Entienne in his first mock

Unless we go Harris, I'd rather grab another OG and have the ability to have any RB have success behind our line.

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Unless we go Harris, I'd rather grab another OG and have the ability to have any RB have success behind our line.

We get Thuney in FA and resign Elflein... we don't need an OG really. 

[Jag68Sid87]

11 hours ago, Forge said:

FTR, AA isn't really a DE. He can play there, and will absolutely set an edge and shut down the run from the edge when he's there, but he 100% is not an effective pass rusher from there. He's a pass rushing 3t / 4t on the inside. Saleh even had him play some 1t a few years back. 

I agree with you. But there is more to being an effective defensive end than just rushing from the edge. Armstead is outstanding when it comes to batting balls down, for instance.

[jetsfan4life51]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

We get Thuney in FA and resign Elflein... we don't need an OG really. 

Yes I don't want to jinx it until it happens lol.  Would give us a ton of flexibility in the draft getting Thuney and a WR.

[Jag68Sid87]

Even without Lawrence here, I still would love to get Etienne. 

Zach Wilson at two, though? I would not like that. That's once again putting too much pressure on the kid to perform right out of the gate. 

Trade down in that scenario.

[jetjuice]

22 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

And thats unfortunate because he fielded two bottom 5 defenses his first two years in San Francisco forcing scheme on the personnel. 

Douglas is going to have to get creative. 

First off, that's inaccurate. Only once did he have a bottom-5 defense and that was in 2018, which was a season completely ruined by injury. 

If you even bothered to check out either the video or article you'll have picked up on how Saleh has evolved his defense more and more away from that single high safety cover 3 that only worked in Seattle because of the insane personnel they had. For all the talent that SF had on his better defenses, it was no Legion of Boom. It's a vanilla defense and your statement only supports that it wasn't effective. So why bring it here? How is it "unfortunate" that he's not? He had more success with the wide 9 in 2019 and 2020, which was arguably his most impressive year because he led them to 5th in total yards allowed without 3 of his 4 best returning pass rushers from the Super Bowl team the year before. 

You make it seem like our personnel has us pigeon-holed into a 3-4, when in reality that is far from the case. Jets fans have just been used to a 3-4 for the past decade and we can truly take this defense in any direction we want. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by jetjuice

[jetjuice]

1 hour ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Unless we go Harris, I'd rather grab another OG and have the ability to have any RB have success behind our line.

I don't want an RB high. There are going to be Shanahan concepts in our run game. This system has thrived off plug and play RB's and for all the needs we have as well as the depth that's in this draft, I see that as a luxury personally. I'd be expecting us to focus on the trenches early (picks 23 and 34). Both places he was at before here (Baltimore and Philly) are known for investing their FRP's in the trenches on both sides and his first pick was a mammoth LT in Mekhi Becton. JD is a former lineman himself and knows the importance of winning at the LOS.

I would love to get a guy like Kenneth Gainwell or Javonte Williams later on maybe round 3. I think they have as much upside as anyone but Harris.

Edited January 22, 2021 by jetjuice

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

We get Thuney in FA and resign Elflein... we don't need an OG really. 

Even then I'd still want a few more lineman. Elfein could regress and with our track record on keeping guys healthy I want some good depth.

[KingOfNewYork]

49 minutes ago, jetjuice said:

First off, that's inaccurate. Only once did he have a bottom-5 defense and that was in 2018, which was a season completely ruined by injury. 

If you even bothered to check out either the video or article you'll have picked up on how Saleh has evolved his defense more and more away from that single high safety cover 3 that only worked in Seattle because of the insane personnel they had. For all the talent that SF had on his better defenses, it was no Legion of Boom. It's a vanilla defense and your statement only supports that it wasn't effective. So why bring it here? How is it "unfortunate" that he's not? He had more success with the wide 9 in 2019 and 2020, which was arguably his most impressive year because he led them to 5th in total yards allowed without 3 of his 4 best returning pass rushers from the Super Bowl team the year before. 

You make it seem like our personnel has us pigeon-holed into a 3-4, when in reality that is far from the case. Jets fans have just been used to a 3-4 for the past decade and we can truly take this defense in any direction we want. 

2017 and 2018 were bad years, period. 25th and 28th in points allowed. 

2019 he brought in a new DL coach, added more talent and changed the scheme but his original scheme he brought it was not working. He did adjust it. 8th in points allowed. 

I dont wanna hear about injuries because no one else is afforded that excuse. 17th in points allowed it middle of the pack either way so thats fine. 

We simply do not have the personnel right now to be an attacking 4-3 defense, can we get the talent? sure but we also have to build our offense up. Going to take a couple seasons to see the full product on both sides of the ball, I've never been a rush to win but wins are definitely going to be demanded soon. 

[jetjuice]

4 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

2017 and 2018 were bad years, period. 25th and 28th in points allowed. 

2019 he brought in a new DL coach, added more talent and changed the scheme but his original scheme he brought it was not working. He did adjust it. 8th in points allowed. 

I dont wanna hear about injuries because no one else is afforded that excuse. 17th in points allowed it middle of the pack either way so thats fine. 

We simply do not have the personnel right now to be an attacking 4-3 defense, can we get the talent? sure but we also have to build our offense up. Going to take a couple seasons to see the full product on both sides of the ball, I've never been a rush to win but wins are definitely going to be demanded soon. 

I just don't see where along this projection you think it'll take longer for us to build a solid 4-3 attack defense than it would a 3-4. Either way we need a lot of pieces to field a formidable defense no matter which scheme he chooses.

[KingOfNewYork]

1 minute ago, jetjuice said:

I just don't see where along this projection you think it'll take longer for us to build a solid 4-3 attack defense than it would a 3-4. Either way we need a lot of pieces to field a formidable defense no matter which scheme he chooses.

Because we've been a 3-4 team the last 15 years, everything we've done personnel wise has been adding 3-4 talent. A scheme turnover takes a while unless you devote almost all of your resources to that side of the ball. 

I'm not against the transition, I just know the stress it comes with and you end up losing quality talent in the process(Abraham and Vilma).

Like I'm trying to see where Fatukasi and Huff can fit into the scheme, especially if its a carbon copy of his Seattle/SF schemes. Can Fatukasi play 1T, can Huff thrive as a 9 or should he transition to SAM. Q will play 3T, JFM should be able to play both End and Tackle(on passing downs)

Still we need two legit EDGE rushers who can get home and linebackers with range.

[jetjuice]

6 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Because we've been a 3-4 team the last 15 years, everything we've done personnel wise has been adding 3-4 talent. A scheme turnover takes a while unless you devote almost all of your resources to that side of the ball. 

I'm not against the transition, I just know the stress it comes with and you end up losing quality talent in the process(Abraham and Vilma).

Like I'm trying to see where Fatukasi and Huff can fit into the scheme, especially if its a carbon copy of his Seattle/SF schemes. Can Fatukasi play 1T, can Huff thrive as a 9 or should he transition to SAM. Q will play 3T, JFM should be able to play both End and Tackle(on passing downs)

Still we need two legit EDGE rushers who can get home and linebackers with range.

We are not in a position where we would be losing guys like Abe and Vilma. Our impending free agents are either scheme versatile or not nearly as talented as those two. 

His DT's take on double teams often which is what lets the LB's roam free. Foley can do that, plus he's also entering a contract year so he might be someone that's on the move anyway. I'm wondering if he can be a moving part in a potential Deshaun Watson trade.

[KingOfNewYork]

1 minute ago, jetjuice said:

We are not in a position where we would be losing guys like Abe and Vilma. Our impending free agents are either scheme versatile or not nearly as talented as those two. 

His DT's take on double teams often which is what lets the LB's roam free. Foley can do that, plus he's also entering a contract year so he might be someone that's on the move anyway. I'm wondering if he can be a moving part in a potential Deshaun Watson trade.

We'll see man, I have faith in him obviously but its clear talent is a huge huge huge part of this scheme, its only won with talented players. And knowing what our offense needs its going to take a bit of a longer transition on both ends.