Browns General Discussion

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t like the 2 TE’s with Chubb split out for one, and generally not the formation at all.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm also not wild about the 5 wide look, but at this point, our weak options at the skill spots coupled with Mayfield's complete inability to read anything pre-snap is why. 

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If you run empty with 4-5 receivers at least you’ve got athletes on the field and the potential for a big play.

Except that our "weapons" against other teams' corners/safeties is a mismatch not in our favor. At least with the heavy personnel we can isolate TE and RB against linebackers.

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Having Chubb who’s not a great target for anything really other than a screen pass and a pair of lumbering TE’s isn’t ideal imo.

Not ideal, agreed, except for when those lumbering TE's are matched up against equally as lumbering linebackers, or that guy split out is Hunt (as opposed to Chubb).

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The personnel is fine if you leave the RB in the backfield and they need to be concerned about running out of what is still a 2 TE personnel grouping.  

I agree, and this is my preference as well.

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Saying “we’re passing” while having a pair of slow arse TE’s who do nothing and a RB who’s not great in the pass game isn’t imo the advantage they think it is.  Results would back this up. This allows for a lot of fun stuff with PA.

See: The DPJ bomb vs. Cincinnati, the long Chubb TD run vs. Cinci (both the same formations and backfield action with guard action).

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Even if it allows Baker to make easier reads, there’s no one that’s able to get open or do anything of consequence with it if they do on the field.

Again, when your quarterback really struggles with processing, reading a defense, etc., you are trying to give "gimme reads" with easy high % throws and also not allowing him/putting him in a position to turn it over. That's why they're doing it for right or for wrong.

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Especially Chubb.  Every time they motion him to the outside I’m just chuckle.  Like, no defense is concerned about him any longer. No one is worried about Nick Chubb roasting a corner from outside the hashes.

It's not about matching up Chubb though. That motion tells you man or zone, 1 high or 2 high, and makes teams allocate/waste a CB on a RB and then isolates someone else in the slot against an inferior athlete. It's the equivalent of a pick and roll in basketball, having an extra blocker on the field in the run game, etc. I'll trade anyone for someone better for any reason in about any sport.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Let me preface this by saying that I'm also not wild about the 5 wide look, but at this point, our weak options at the skill spots coupled with Mayfield's complete inability to read anything pre-snap is why. 

Except that our "weapons" against other teams' corners/safeties is a mismatch not in our favor. At least with the heavy personnel we can isolate TE and RB against linebackers.

I get that, but I don’t think Hooper 1:1 against anyone is favoring us.  His ADOT is like 5 yards. Same with Chubb, he’s not a great receiver.

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Not ideal, agreed, except for when those lumbering TE's are matched up against equally as lumbering linebackers, or that guy split out is Hunt (as opposed to Chubb).

Hunt yes, Chubb no.  They can’t do the same things.  And no team has had  a LBer as lumbering as Hooper since ‘96.

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I agree, and this is my preference as well.

See: The DPJ bomb vs. Cincinnati, the long Chubb TD run vs. Cinci (both the same formations and backfield action with guard action).

yep.

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Again, when your quarterback really struggles with processing, reading a defense, etc., you are trying to give "gimme reads" with easy high % throws and also not allowing him/putting him in a position to turn it over. That's why they're doing it for right or for wrong.

I feel like we’re getting a bit ridic with the “he can’t process anything” pre-snap.  Like, no offense but if a HS coach can spot it, I’m guessing a guy who played like 3-4 seasons of high level college QB and has been an NFL starter for 4 seasons can.

Maybe he’s not great at reading disguised looks or stuff post snap, but if he can’t make basic reads he’s not doing half of what he’s done in his career this far. If a guy can’t make basic reads he’s a turnover machine, and he’s not.

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

It's not about matching up Chubb though. That motion tells you man or zone, 1 high or 2 high, and makes teams allocate/waste a CB on a RB and then isolates someone else in the slot against an inferior athlete. It's the equivalent of a pick and roll in basketball, having an extra blocker on the field in the run game, etc. I'll trade anyone for someone better for any reason in about any sport.

I get all that, my issues CHUBB being the one doing it.  If you’re going to split someone out, use Felton or Hunt.

With Chubb stick with swings, screens and blocking.

[MWil23]

29 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I feel like we’re getting a bit ridic with the “he can’t process anything” pre-snap.  Like, no offense but if a HS coach can spot it, I’m guessing a guy who played like 3-4 seasons of high level college QB and has been an NFL starter for 4 seasons can.

None taken, and I simply don't agree. I bet Baker has never played a snap of defense since like 8th grade, so he doesn't have the benefit of knowing what to look for, having probably been spoon fed by OC's like Kliff K and Lincoln Riley. Some of these nuances are subtle, and I'm not even saying that I can spot them all, because I can't. 

Plus, when he actually proves me wrong, I'll own it. Until then, my criticisms stand. One of the major red flags of his coming out was that his college system was overly simplistic and wasn't a viable NFL offense (correct on both). The other was how badly he struggled under pressure (still the case).

29 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Maybe he’s not great at reading disguised looks or stuff post snap, but if he can’t make basic reads he’s not doing half of what he’s done in his career this far. If a guy can’t make basic reads he’s a turnover machine, and he’s not.

Or a sack machine, which he absolutely is. There's a reason that Burrow, Jackson, and Baker are towards the top of the league in sack %, and it's because other teams are sending pressure and those 3 struggle reading defenses and identifying pressure.

Just look at Burrow's metrics in man (he carves it up) as opposed to zone (leads the NFL in interceptions) or Lamar against the blitz (awful) or Baker when pressured (bottom of the league in his career) or Baker as a straight dropback passer without play-action (towards the bottom of the league in efficiency/turnovers).

[Kiwibrown]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColqDu20.htm

Up grade at punter

[NudeTayne]

29 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColqDu20.htm

Up grade at punter

The American Hammer

[ReggieCamp]

 

[candyman93]

Free agents to look at

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-free-agent-rankings-free-agency

[candyman93]

Hope to sign Ryan Pace as a consultant when the Bears fire him. Can’t draft offensive players to save his life, but he drafted the following:

 

Eddie Goldman, Adrian Amos, Eddie Jackson, Bilal Nichols, Roquan Smith, and Jaylon Johnson.

Edited December 13, 2021 by candyman93

[candyman93]

Our entire offense should be forfeiting their checks to the defense this season:

 

Bears, 6 pts 

Vikings, 7 pts 

Broncos, 14 pts 

Steelers, 15 pts 

Bengals, 16 pts 

Lions, 10 pts 

Ravens, 16 pts 

Ravens, 22 pts (16 if the refs throw a flag for their onside kick) 

Raiders, 16 pts 

 

Then the bad ones: 

 

Texans 21, Chiefs 33, Chargers 47 pts, Cardinals 37 pts, Patriots 45 

 

With just a slightly average offense we’re 10-4.

[AkronsWitness]

The 1 takeaway I had from last night is that the WR group is a LOT worse than anybody had ever thought.

I might have to ease up my stance on Baker after seeing Mullens also try to play with these clowns. 

Give me Olave AND Wilson. Make a trade back up in the 1st and go banannas.

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

The 1 takeaway I had from last night is that the WR group is a LOT worse than I had ever thought.

I might have to ease up my stance on Baker after seeing Mullens also try to play with these clowns. 

Give me Olave AND Wilson. Make a trade back up in the 1st and go banannas.

Fify.

Been trying to tell you for a while now.

[candyman93]

What bothers me about seasons like this year is that nobody improved. If anything, guys got worse.

 

Who stepped up and over-performed? If you want to say the 2 rookies, I kinda get it, but it’s not what I mean.

[Browns1987]

2 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

The 1 takeaway I had from last night is that the WR group is a LOT worse than anybody had ever thought.

I might have to ease up my stance on Baker after seeing Mullens also try to play with these clowns. 

Give me Olave AND Wilson. Make a trade back up in the 1st and go banannas.

To me, the one takeaway from last night is that the coaching staff is a LOT worse than anybody expected after last season.

Its not just Stefanski blowing leads by coaching scared, but the whole coaching staff. That last offensive drive from yesterday is a living proof of it.

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

Fify.

Been trying to tell you for a while now.

I mean they didnt have Landry that hurt but there was a hole lot of joy coming out of TC/Preseaon about what DPJ/Felton/Schwartz could bring to the table. None of that has happened so far because none of them despite their speed can get consistent separation 

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, Browns1987 said:

To me, the one takeaway from last night is that the coaching staff is a LOT worse than anybody expected after last season.

Its not just Stefanski blowing leads by coaching scared, but the whole coaching staff. That last offensive drive from yesterday is a living proof of it.

To be fair, if the Browns passed it on 3rd and 3 and didnt get the first down every single person and their mother would have lost their minds about not giving the ball to Nick Chubb.

So they made the right decision, give the ball to your best player. However, the OL this season has been atrocious for the majority of the year. There wasnt a single hole opened up for him to run through last night.

Edited December 21, 2021 by AkronsWitness