diamondbull424 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Archimedes said: Considering that the supporting cast was built by a combination of Ozzie Newsome, John Harbaugh, and DeCosta, all of whom’s football knowledge I put above yours, I’m going to go ahead and NOT assume they were mediocre. Go ahead and just keep digging your own grave. 😂 Those three were also all present in drafting and coaching Joe Flacco. Yet you agreed earlier in this thread that Joe Flacco led a subpar offense because he was a bottom 5 QB. How could he ever be bottom 5 when those three were involved in his selection? Does this logic not also extend to QBs? And if doesn’t, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Archimedes said: The issue is you’re not dealing facts, you’re just pushing narratives, while acting like you have some kind of authoritative football knowledge (you don’t). Cam has nothing to do with this conversation. Since you hate stats let’s try this. Considering that the supporting cast was built by a combination of Ozzie Newsome, John Harbaugh, and DeCosta, all of whom’s football knowledge I put above yours, I’m going to go ahead and NOT assume they were mediocre. But feel free to keep deluding yourself into thinking your offense was all Lamar. Newsome, Harbaugh, and DeCosta were working together for 11 seasons prior to 2019, and never once had an offense in the top quarter (8th or better) in the NFL (using DVOA). What is your argument here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: LOL. And there we have it. Allen gets credit because of his talent. Forget what literally happened on the field! Forget that the offense was bottom 10 in most categories. Forget that the defense was an elite unit while the offense was below league average. Bills win a game 7-0, with the only score being a defensive touchdown? Allen gets the credit, he’s the most talented! BTW, do you have any comment on your wrong statement about Josh Allen extending drives? Talent levels translates better over time than short term results. Especially when you put it in the context of circumstances which change. With regard to Josh Allen extending drives you once again mistake my takes of relative success as an assertion of absolute success. I am arguing that relative to other QBs who would be in his position with that supporting cast, he did an outstanding job in extending drives and giving his defense rest in situations few other QBs could. You keep missing what I'm saying. I could care less what the numbers say. I am talking from an eye test perspective based on the comparative talent surrounding Allen and the circumstances he was put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ET80 said: The mental gymnastics here is astounding. You brought up Nathan Peterman at your own risk. You should have known he transferred from Tennessee after getting beat out by Dobbs. You argued that just because Dobbs hasn't gotten a start yet but Peterman has that he would never amount to anything. I cited his college career just to show you that just because you beat a guy out in camp and start ahead of him initially doesn't guarantee you will have the better career. In 2014 after Dobbs came in halfway through the season and turned things around for Tennessee, Vols fans as well as fans around the SEC were confused as to why he didn't start earlier. They were asking why Nathan Peterman who was awful whenever he got live game action was ahead of him on the depth chart. Some guys are just better in actual games versus practice. At least when it came to college that seems to have been the case for Dobbs. It took injuries to the guys ahead of him and meltdowns by Nathan Peterman for him to get his shot. Then when he got it he took off and finished his career second only to Peyton Manning in total yards and TDs at Tennessee. That's not a bad college career for a guy who couldn't beat out Nathan Peterman in preseason camp. Edited August 5, 2020 by VanS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, VanS said: You brought up Nathan Peterman at your own risk. You should have known he transferred from Tennessee after getting beat out by Dobbs. You argued that just because Dobbs hasn't gotten a start yet but Peterman has that he would never amount to anything. I cited his college career just to show you that just because you beat a guy out in camp and start ahead of him initially doesn't guarantee you will have the better career. In 2014 after Dobbs came in halfway through the season and turned things around for Tennessee, Vols fans as well as fans around the SEC were confused as to why he didn't start earlier. They were asking why Nathan Peterman who was awful whenever he got live game action was ahead of him on the depth chart. Some guys are just better in actual games versus practice. At least when it came to college that seems to have been the case for Dobbs. It took injuries to the guys ahead of him and meltdowns by Nathan Peterman for him to get his shot. Then when he got it he took off and finished his career second only to Peyton Manning in total yards and TDs at Tennessee. That's not a bad college career for a guy who couldn't beat out Nathan Peterman in preseason camp. 4 hours ago, ET80 said: The mental gymnastics here is astounding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, VanS said: Talent levels translates better over time than short term results. Especially when you put it in the context of circumstances which change. Translates better to what? Winning? We’re not talking about down the road. You said Allen was the driving force of a playoff team, apparently because he’s talented. But he led a poor offense, no amount of tAlEnT changes that. The defense carried the team. Being talented doesn’t mean jack if you aren’t playing well, and by all measurable standards, that offense was not the strength of the Buffalo Bills. 1 hour ago, VanS said: With regard to Josh Allen extending drives you once again mistake my takes of relative success as an assertion of absolute success. I am arguing that relative to other QBs who would be in his position with that supporting cast, he did an outstanding job in extending drives and giving his defense rest in situations few other QBs could. You keep missing what I'm saying. I could care less what the numbers say. I am talking from an eye test perspective based on the comparative talent surrounding Allen and the circumstances he was put in. Ohhhh, so you’re saying that Josh Allen actually did a good job leading the offense to being league-wide poor at converting third downs, getting firsts, controlling the clock, and scoring points - via the eye test? And your basis is that in the 31 fantasy worlds where all QBs play the 2019 season as the Buffalo Bills starter, Allen actually performs in the top 5? You should’ve just opened with that, now it all makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 10 hours ago, animaltested said: PFF = garbage INB4 some smark quotes one of these and replies "yes" Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Translates better to what? Winning? We’re not talking about down the road. Well down the road is all I ever talk about. All my projections are based on a macro view over a guy's career rather than short term results. Why do you think I tout Josh Allen so much? If I cared only about being right in the short term I would be just talking about Lamar Jackson in this thread. But if you noticed I always say that as much as I love what Lamar has done thus far I'm still taking Josh Allen over him in the long run because I'm always projecting over time rather than just looking at recent past or present. Overall talent level is a better indicator of long term success than short term results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, VanS said: Well down the road is all I ever talk about. Is that right? Only down the road? On 7/31/2020 at 3:23 PM, VanS said: He's the main reason your team even made the playoffs last year. Quote Take Josh Allen away from the Bills and replace him with a league average starting QB and you have the worst offense in the league and a team that barely win 6 games last year. Quote Be thankful you have Josh Allen. I can't think of 5 QBs who could have done more with the Bills offense last year. Quote Just think back to how bad the Bills were in 2018 when Allen was hurt and then how competitive they became when he played. Quote Like I said earlier, without Allen they go 6-10 at best last year. Guess you can’t be wrong if you always move the goalposts. We went from “Allen is the main reason the Bills made the playoffs”, to “Allen is the most important single player on the team”, to “Allen is talented, therefore deserves most of the credit”, and finally to “well, I’m only looking down the road, talent is the biggest indicator of success”. Your original statement was about last year’s playoff push, and now you’re going on about how you only look down the road and that Josh Allen will look good years down the line. Are you really so dense that you can’t see what a wild tangent that is? What an albatross of BS this has been. And I mean as a close to a literal sea of crap as possible on this forum. The only worse justifications I’ve seen were from those burner homer accounts (some still exist), but at least those are partly satirical. Edited August 5, 2020 by Yin-Yang 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Is that right? Only down the road? Guess you can’t be wrong if you always move the goalposts. We went from “Allen is the main reason the Bills made the playoffs”, to “Allen is the most important single player on the team”, to “Allen is talented, therefore deserves most of the credit”, and finally to “well, I’m only looking down the road, talent is the biggest indicator of success”. Your original statement was about last year’s playoff push, and now you’re going on about how you only look down the road and that Josh Allen will look good years down the line. Are you really so dense that you can’t see what a wild tangent that is? What an albatross of BS this has been. And I mean as a close to a literal sea of crap as possible on this forum. The only worse justifications I’ve seen were from those burner homer accounts (some still exist), but at least those are partly satirical. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 56 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Is that right? Only down the road? Guess you can’t be wrong if you always move the goalposts. We went from “Allen is the main reason the Bills made the playoffs”, to “Allen is the most important single player on the team”, to “Allen is talented, therefore deserves most of the credit”, and finally to “well, I’m only looking down the road, talent is the biggest indicator of success”. Your original statement was about last year’s playoff push, and now you’re going on about how you only look down the road and that Josh Allen will look good years down the line. Are you really so dense that you can’t see what a wild tangent that is? What an albatross of BS this has been. And I mean as a close to a literal sea of crap as possible on this forum. The only worse justifications I’ve seen were from those burner homer accounts (some still exist), but at least those are partly satirical. If a post could be a memorable moment in sports, this is the moment this post would be... OHHHHHHHH!!! @Yin-Yang, WITH NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breesus mode Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) Y'all acting like that ended the debate don't know Vans. Prepare for MOAR goalpost shifting, because Vans is incapable of ever being wrong. Edited August 5, 2020 by Breesus mode 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 52 minutes ago, Breesus mode said: Y'all acting like that ended the debate don't know Vans. Prepare for MOAR goalpost shifting, because Vans is incapable of ever being wrong. I'm aware. I just need to take score going forward. That might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breesus mode Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, ET80 said: I'm aware. I just need to take score going forward. That might help. I have it bookmarked in case it ever becomes handy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Breesus mode said: I have it bookmarked in case it ever becomes handy Our very own OldTakesExposed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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