Fire Pace and Nagy

[dll2000]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

You can’t compete in the NFL with a bottom 5 offense.

Pace and Nagy have not shown they can improve the offense.

The Bears are not competitive with this offense and every move they made to fix it has sucked.

True.

Caveat that some moves are a bit augmented by others in a domino effect.   I think if Foles did not have an awful O Line with same weapons and got to practice with competent coaches all spring and summer in a regular non-Covid season he would not have looked nearly as bad as he has.   Not saying he is some great player, but you have to factor things in.

In other words bad O line, plus bad coaching, plus weird practice prep, plus no practice prep with MT as initial starter all hurt Foles so he looks like a bum, when he probably would not have been horrible in other circumstances.  

So adding Jimmy Graham, which I was against because they over paid, and Foles, which I was indifferent, were not awful moves in a vacuum, but combined with years of O line and TE neglect or incompetence and bad coaching they turn out looking really bad.

Similarly Roquan Smith without adequate protection in front of him will look like a much worse player.  This is true of any ILB, but especially true of undersized quickness reliant LBs.   When you draft a player like this you have to scheme protect him.

When you bring in a guy with Foles limitations you better have a great O line in front of him.   Same was true of Bledsoe who was a great pro bowl QB with a great O line and a horrid one with a bad one and Foles isn’t in Bledsoe’s class.

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

 

In bold above.

Nice Sugar!   I hope and pray it all works out for you and yours.  

I too started a new job in Nov.  Been much better for me.  Though I liked my old job and the people, the pay was not consistent as I was kind of an independent contractor of sorts.    

I am salaried now and we can budget and what not.   

God bless everyone this Christmas.  Kind of one nice thing about Bears being bad is getting away from minutia of following them as we are reminded that football is not most important thing.  

When I coached I spent about 40 hours a week on football for no pay while also working full time  (though I did help mold young boys and built relationships which was nice).

I miss old soul man.   Hope he comes back around again.  

 

 

[Sugashane]

10 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Nice Sugar!   I hope and pray it all works out for you and yours.  

I too started a new job in Nov.  Been much better for me.  Though I liked my old job and the people, the pay was not consistent as I was kind of an independent contractor of sorts.    

I am salaried now and we can budget and what not.   

God bless everyone this Christmas.  Kind of one nice thing about Bears being bad is getting away from minutia of following them as we are reminded that football is not most important thing.  

When I coached I spent about 40 hours a week on football for no pay while also working full time  (though I did help mold young boys and built relationships which was nice).

I miss old soul man.   Hope he comes back around again.  

 

 

Congrats on your new job.   Same here man. I was running my construction crew for the last several years. Money was good for 9 months a year but you run through most of what you saved during winter. Just tired of spinning my wheels. Now I'm salaried and loving it so far. 

Football has always been a family event for us. Until I got here I always had football, family and friends, and a bunch of food. Eventually booze and guitars followed too. Lol

Man. I put in an hour after practice and thought I was doing good. I wish we could have had this last season, I'm not going to see the kids again unless I'm down during their season. That sucks

Agreed. Soul is a good dude, might have different views than him a lot but that's what makes the forum good. Who wants to come into an echo chamber?

 

[Heinz D.]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:10 AM, dll2000 said:

God bless everyone this Christmas.  Kind of one nice thing about Bears being bad is getting away from minutia of following them as we are reminded that football is not most important thing.  

[beardown3231]

Bump

cc @WindyCity

[Heinz D.]

8 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Bump

cc @WindyCity

This thread might actually need to be closed now. Not much to debate anymore, is there? 😁

[Bowler1215]

While Pace has found a diamond in the rough once or twice(Mooney looks like that guy) he constantly trades up and gives away future picks, that's part of the resaon why we're mediocre at best  He's done that 4 straight years.  He hired Nagy who isn't a coach.  Traded for Foles whos only good in Philly.  Fire Pace and Nagy.  Trubisky and Foles go in FA and we rebuild again.  QB in round 1, LT in round 2 and go from there. 

Also, IMO, since we're out of playoff contention, let some of the second string guys play more the rest of the year, like WR Ridly, LB Gipson, CB Vildor.  Hell, let Albright and Simmons play on the OL the rest of the year, see what they can do. 

[IotaNet]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:42 PM, abstract_thought said:

Pace has had 4 top 10 picks: Kevin White, Leonard Floyd, Mitch Trubisky, and Roquan Smith .

😬

For me, that’s the beginning and end of the conversation. NFL GMs get paid HUGE money to make the right decisions and the most important ones are how to use draft capital. For whatever reason, Pace has mishandled the most valuable draft capital - top 10 picks. 

We can make excuses for Floyd and White but the bottom line is that they have not delivered. IMO, there is no excuse for the Trubisky pick. I’m not going to re-litigate all the reasons it was the wrong pick but history had borne that out.

Plain & simple, Pace has not gotten the job done, nor have either of the HCs he’s hired. Time to show him (and Nagy) the door ... sooner than later.

 

[topwop1]

32 minutes ago, Bowler1215 said:

While Pace has found a diamond in the rough once or twice(Mooney looks like that guy) he constantly trades up and gives away future picks, that's part of the resaon why we're mediocre at best  He's done that 4 straight years.  He hired Nagy who isn't a coach.  Traded for Foles whos only good in Philly.  Fire Pace and Nagy.  Trubisky and Foles go in FA and we rebuild again.  QB in round 1, LT in round 2 and go from there. 

Also, IMO, since we're out of playoff contention, let some of the second string guys play more the rest of the year, like WR Ridly, LB Gipson, CB Vildor.  Hell, let Albright and Simmons play on the OL the rest of the year, see what they can do. 

Agreed. Time to shut down the veteran players for the season who may be used as trade bait in the offseason ie. Hicks &  Mack and play the younger guys 

No point in potentially exposing these guys to a serious injury in meaningless games.

New regime also needs as much tape as possible to evaluate some of these young guys to see if their worth sticking around 

[WindyCity]

Just remember who told you first.

[Sugashane]

5 hours ago, Bowler1215 said:

While Pace has found a diamond in the rough once or twice(Mooney looks like that guy) he constantly trades up and gives away future picks, that's part of the resaon why we're mediocre at best  He's done that 4 straight years.  He hired Nagy who isn't a coach.  Traded for Foles whos only good in Philly.  Fire Pace and Nagy.  Trubisky and Foles go in FA and we rebuild again.  QB in round 1, LT in round 2 and go from there. 

Also, IMO, since we're out of playoff contention, let some of the second string guys play more the rest of the year, like WR Ridly, LB Gipson, CB Vildor.  Hell, let Albright and Simmons play on the OL the rest of the year, see what they can do. 

I'm at the point of wanting to trade back in the 1st if the QB isn't who they want there. Hell, trade back a few times and gather a lot more swings at key spots. IDC. We need so many holes filled it is ridiculous, especially after getting rid of bad contracts like Graham, Leno, Massie, etc and when ARob walks.

[Nads786]

This is from Brad Biggs column this morning -

That was at the heart of the Raiders’ decision to trade Khalil Mack in 2018. Jon Gruden had taken over a 5-11 team with a host of needs. The Raiders couldn’t get anywhere in contract talks with Mack, so Gruden’s thinking was along the lines of, “How valuable can he be if this was a five-win team last year? Let’s try to fill multiple needs.” Unfortunately, the Bears can’t trade Robinson and turn him into a bounty of picks. They would be in line for a 2022 compensatory draft pick if Robinson departed via free agency, provided they didn’t cancel out his departure with some huge signings. Maybe they take the cap space and cash needed to keep him and see if they can use it to address multiple needs. If they do, they would have a huge void for a No. 1 receiver and Robinson would be able to shop his services leaguewide.

Gruden was on to something here. The same thing happened with JJ Watt - they didn't have Watson and he won multiple DMVPs with nothing to show for it. 

[topwop1]

21 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

This is from Brad Biggs column this morning -

That was at the heart of the Raiders’ decision to trade Khalil Mack in 2018. Jon Gruden had taken over a 5-11 team with a host of needs. The Raiders couldn’t get anywhere in contract talks with Mack, so Gruden’s thinking was along the lines of, “How valuable can he be if this was a five-win team last year? Let’s try to fill multiple needs.” Unfortunately, the Bears can’t trade Robinson and turn him into a bounty of picks. They would be in line for a 2022 compensatory draft pick if Robinson departed via free agency, provided they didn’t cancel out his departure with some huge signings. Maybe they take the cap space and cash needed to keep him and see if they can use it to address multiple needs. If they do, they would have a huge void for a No. 1 receiver and Robinson would be able to shop his services leaguewide.

Gruden was on to something here. The same thing happened with JJ Watt - they didn't have Watson and he won multiple DMVPs with nothing to show for it. 

I wonder if the new regime that comes in will want to blow everything up and trade away guys on D like Mack, Hicks, Fuller, etc. while they still have some value OR if they attempt to salvage what's left of the current D to try and compete next year just with a revamped offense?

It's a tough question to answer because Pace has left this team in quite a mess salary cap wise so it's hard to see them being able to do much on offense without some big cuts/trades made.

I looked on Spotrac and if Mack is traded with a post June 1st designation he can save the Bears almost $18M against the cap for 2021 and I believe any team that would be trading for him wouldn't be on the hook for his full $26.5M cap hit for 2021, and after that his cap figure become more manageable in 2022 and beyond.

If a team offers a 2nd round pick for Mack and the rest of his contract is anyone here saying no?  I'm currently n the fence whether I want them to try and keep this defensive unit together for one another couple years or to completely start over.

[Nads786]

13 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I wonder if the new regime that comes in will want to blow everything up and trade away guys on D like Mack, Hicks, Fuller, etc. while they still have some value OR if they attempt to salvage what's left of the current D to try and compete next year just with a revamped offense?

It's a tough question to answer because Pace has left this team in quite a mess salary cap wise so it's hard to see them being able to do much on offense without some big cuts/trades made.

I looked on Spotrac and if Mack is traded with a post June 1st designation he can save the Bears almost $18M against the cap for 2021 and I believe any team that would be trading for him wouldn't be on the hook for his full $26.5M cap hit for 2021, and after that his cap figure become more manageable in 2022 and beyond.

If a team offers a 2nd round pick for Mack and the rest of his contract is anyone here saying no?  I'm currently n the fence whether I want them to try and keep this defensive unit together for one another couple years or to completely start over.

Mack is a really good player and keeping him I think is not a bad move. We will have our first round pick next year and the next GM will need to start hitting on picks. We can't have Kevin Whites and Mitch Trus. All we need is good drafting and we will be in good shape. 

[CBears019]

21 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I wonder if the new regime that comes in will want to blow everything up and trade away guys on D like Mack, Hicks, Fuller, etc. while they still have some value OR if they attempt to salvage what's left of the current D to try and compete next year just with a revamped offense?

It's a tough question to answer because Pace has left this team in quite a mess salary cap wise so it's hard to see them being able to do much on offense without some big cuts/trades made.

I looked on Spotrac and if Mack is traded with a post June 1st designation he can save the Bears almost $18M against the cap for 2021 and I believe any team that would be trading for him wouldn't be on the hook for his full $26.5M cap hit for 2021, and after that his cap figure become more manageable in 2022 and beyond.

If a team offers a 2nd round pick for Mack and the rest of his contract is anyone here saying no?  I'm currently n the fence whether I want them to try and keep this defensive unit together for one another couple years or to completely start over.

Personally I’m saying no to that.  I know Kahlil hasn’t quite been himself since the beginning of last year, but he’s still only 29 - he’s got a lot of good football left in him.  I’d prefer to keep him.

If I were to trade him, it would have to be for a 1 and then some.  I know we won’t get the same package the Raiders got, but he’s worth far more than a 2 IMO.