Official 2021 QB Thread

[TecmoSuperJoe]

If Trask doesn't pan out he'll have an easy nickname to coin. 

[goldfishwars]

18 hours ago, Ozzy said:

So let me get this straight, he will not take a snap as a NFL starter?

No, I was talking about his ability 

[jrry32]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

It is the ball velocity and the timing on the throw, plus putting it where only his guy had a chance to catch it.  Sure DeVonta Smith is an absolute dynamo, that I agree with.  But people need to stop talking about Mac Jones as if he is Greg McElroy out there or something.  The kid has high end arm talent and throws arguably best deep ball in college football.  

 

As if throwing a football like this is a bad thing, how dare you throw it right on time, to the receiver who does not have to break stride, with enough air on it so the receiver can go get it.  So all of a sudden doing that is a negative because he has good receivers to throw to?

It was a routine throw for a NFL prospect. He had a massive window and a clean pocket. As for the guy being the best deep ball thrower, that's an easy task when you have a clean pocket and WRs running open. The negative with Jones is that he typically is making routine plays under ideal circumstances. When he's not, he's not very impressive imo.

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

It was a routine throw for a NFL prospect. He had a massive window and a clean pocket. As for the guy being the best deep ball thrower, that's an easy task when you have a clean pocket and WRs running open. The negative with Jones is that he typically is making routine plays under ideal circumstances. When he's not, he's not very impressive imo.

Easy task when you have a clean pocket?  No, he makes throws not just any average prospect can make.  

 

Off platform throws, sure Jones is not great at that but neither is Kyle Trask.  And to rip a guy for having good teammates, then Kyle Trask sucks because he has great teammates?  Pitts, Toney, Grimes, Copeland, Davis, Shorter and Wright are a better pass catching group collectively than Smith, Metchie, Harris, Bolden and Forirstall just on pure numbers and overall depth.  Sure things would be different if they had Waddle but they do not.  

 

So I should disregard what Trask has done because his teammates are good?  

Dislike Jones because of specific reasons about his play, not his teammates are good.  Trask by the way has almost 80 more passing attempts than Jones does so Jones has a smaller sample size. The dude can fling it in the pocket, and there is still a place in the NFL for guys who are not off platform passers.  Sure if you want that off platform guy then no Jones is not your guy.  

 

The both put on a show in the SEC title game, and both should get a major consideration for being a 1st round pick.  

[Scoundrel]

I know there is a Trey Lance thread but some of the takes in there aren’t worthy of my time based on who posts them and I think this is overall a more productive thread... so anyway, where do people have Lance right now in the QB rankings?

[jrry32]

12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Easy task when you have a clean pocket?  No, he makes throws not just any average prospect can make.  

 

Off platform throws, sure Jones is not great at that but neither is Kyle Trask.  And to rip a guy for having good teammates, then Kyle Trask sucks because he has great teammates?  Pitts, Toney, Grimes, Copeland, Davis, Shorter and Wright are a better pass catching group collectively than Smith, Metchie, Harris, Bolden and Forirstall just on pure numbers and overall depth.  Sure things would be different if they had Waddle but they do not.  

 

So I should disregard what Trask has done because his teammates are good?  

Dislike Jones because of specific reasons about his play, not his teammates are good.  Trask by the way has almost 80 more passing attempts than Jones does so Jones has a smaller sample size. The dude can fling it in the pocket, and there is still a place in the NFL for guys who are not off platform passers.  Sure if you want that off platform guy then no Jones is not your guy.  

 

The both put on a show in the SEC title game, and both should get a major consideration for being a 1st round pick.  

Kyle Trask has some great receiving options, but his OL isn't great. The right side of the UF OL is actually well below average, which forces Trask to have to move in the pocket often. He's not just standing back there and chucking balls to open WRs without pressure. Hell, watch the UF-Bama game. Trask completed a number of throws into tight windows after moving in the pocket. Jones didn't have nearly as many throws into tight coverage or plays where he was forced off his spot. And then there's the fact that Trask has had no consistent running game this year, while Jones has had a great running game.

Trask has some great weapons, but he's the guy shouldering the burden on the offense. Jones isn't. The Jones hype among some reminds me a lot of people calling A.J. McCarron a first round pick.

[Forge]

35 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I know there is a Trey Lance thread but some of the takes in there aren’t worthy of my time based on who posts them and I think this is overall a more productive thread... so anyway, where do people have Lance right now in the QB rankings?

I believe the tier I have him in is....let me check....ah, yes. It's the, 

"Holy crap this guy scares to me to death because  you need to spend a first round pick on him and I get that his ceiling is sky high but he's so raw and has huge bust potential and has barely thrown a pass more recently than Blake Bortles and there's a part of me that just desperately wants to swing for the fences here and get it right" tier. 

He is the only person in this tier. 

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Kyle Trask has some great receiving options, but his OL isn't great. The right side of the UF OL is actually well below average, which forces Trask to have to move in the pocket often. He's not just standing back there and chucking balls to open WRs without pressure. Hell, watch the UF-Bama game. Trask completed a number of throws into tight windows after moving in the pocket. Jones didn't have nearly as many throws into tight coverage or plays where he was forced off his spot. And then there's the fact that Trask has had no consistent running game this year, while Jones has had a great running game.

Trask has some great weapons, but he's the guy shouldering the burden on the offense. Jones isn't. The Jones hype among some reminds me a lot of people calling A.J. McCarron a first round pick.

Who in the world said AJ McCarron was a 1st round pick?  Mac Jones had more yards passing in 9 games than McCarron had in like 14 games.  The arm talent is not even comparable between the two, only thing similar is they both played for Alabama, that is about it.

 

Sure Jones was not pressured against Florida as much because Florida has **** pass rushers outside of Cox really.  Carter got some good push but nothing consistent, did impress though.  Bama oddly enough played pretty bad on the DL, Barmore, Young and Eboigbe all did not play well and did not get much pressure or make much of an impact.  They got some sacks with the edge rushers at times but it was pretty worthless with how many big plays they gave up, made those sacks they got almost pointless.  Guess they did tag some on near the end of the game which again were good to have but more out of desperation of the Florida offense trying to make something happen.  Not sure that Bama pass rush did much to really matter in the game honestly, they got absolutely destroyed overall in terms of the big plays they consistently gave up over and over again.

Trask played out of his mind though, probably kicking themselves because they would have had a shot at the playoff with that performance if they did not crap the bed and lose to LSU.  Then again A&M did beat them so not sure if even beating LSU would have mattered.  Still I know Bama would rather play Notre Dame than Florida again.

 

Easy to say oh Mac Jones is AJ McCarron, or Jake Fromm or Aaron Murray.  Fact is he has way more arm talent than any of those guys looking at ball velocity, overall arm strength, quickness of his release and the timing at which he throws.  He can fling it, and is far more talented than most around here make him out to be it seems.  

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

Who in the world said AJ McCarron was a 1st round pick?  Mac Jones had more yards passing in 9 games than McCarron had in like 14 games.  The arm talent is not even comparable between the two, only thing similar is they both played for Alabama, that is about it.

 

Sure Jones was not pressured against Florida as much because Florida has **** pass rushers outside of Cox really.  Carter got some good push but nothing consistent, did impress though.  Bama oddly enough played pretty bad on the DL, Barmore, Young and Eboigbe all did not play well and did not get much pressure or make much of an impact.  They got some sacks with the edge rushers at times but it was pretty worthless with how many big plays they gave up, made those sacks they got almost pointless.  Guess they did tag some on near the end of the game which again were good to have but more out of desperation of the Florida offense trying to make something happen.  Not sure that Bama pass rush did much to really matter in the game honestly, they got absolutely destroyed overall in terms of the big plays they consistently gave up over and over again.

Trask played out of his mind though, probably kicking themselves because they would have had a shot at the playoff with that performance if they did not crap the bed and lose to LSU.  Then again A&M did beat them so not sure if even beating LSU would have mattered.  Still I know Bama would rather play Notre Dame than Florida again.

 

Easy to say oh Mac Jones is AJ McCarron, or Jake Fromm or Aaron Murray.  Fact is he has way more arm talent than any of those guys looking at ball velocity, overall arm strength, quickness of his release and the timing at which he throws.  He can fling it, and is far more talented than most around here make him out to be it seems.  

A bunch of people did. Mac Jones does have more arm talent, but you have all the same issues with the evaluation. He has an easy job and doesn't have a ton of situations that translate to the NFL. It's a lot easier to ignore that with Tua based on what he showed. There's nothing about Jones's game that stands out other than his accuracy. But it's hard to even properly evaluate that because he's rarely placed in situations akin to those in the NFL where he's stressed and forced to throw into tight windows.

[.Buzz]

51 minutes ago, Counselor said:

I know there is a Trey Lance thread but some of the takes in there aren’t worthy of my time based on who posts them and I think this is overall a more productive thread... so anyway, where do people have Lance right now in the QB rankings?

Lawrence

 

Fields

Wilson

 

 

Lance

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest.

[Scoundrel]

13 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Lawrence

 

Fields

Wilson

 

 

Lance

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest.

So fields and Wilson are closer to Lawrence than Lance is to them?

[Ozzy]

8 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Lawrence

 

Fields

Wilson

 

 

Lance

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest.

Trey Lance is more advanced in his mental processing, overall fundamentals and accuracy than Justin Fields is right now, no doubt about it and he has only played one full season of ball at the FCS level.   Justin Fields does not see the field well at all, he more than struggled against Northwestern this weekend, which is a great defense.  Trey has more developing to do and is still a project QB but at least he can make good choices consistently and I do not doubt his ability to do so, Fields I some what doubt his ability to do so.

Will be good to watch Fields against Clemson coming up.  Then again if freaking Jalen Hurts can succeed in the NFL then Fields might not have a problem.  Hurts is a great leader, great competitor and improving passer but it is pretty nuts how successful he has been early in his career.  At times in his college career he looked pretty awful at the position.  So clearly playing QB in the NFL is not as hard as it used to be.  20 years ago no way Jalen Hurts would be a QB in the NFL, but with the changes in offenses and how it is officiated overall, tons of dudes can now play QB and do so without a ton of issues at least for a little while.  Consistency is still the hard thing to do.  But for a super high draft pick, Fields is more than a little bit of a gamble.  

[.Buzz]

10 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Trey Lance is more advanced in his mental processing, overall fundamentals and accuracy than Justin Fields is right now, no doubt about it and he has only played one full season of ball at the FCS level.   Justin Fields does not see the field well at all, he more than struggled against Northwestern this weekend, which is a great defense.  Trey has more developing to do and is still a project QB but at least he can make good choices consistently and I do not doubt his ability to do so, Fields I some what doubt his ability to do so.

Will be good to watch Fields against Clemson coming up.  Then again if freaking Jalen Hurts can succeed in the NFL then Fields might not have a problem.  Hurts is a great leader, great competitor and improving passer but it is pretty nuts how successful he has been early in his career.  At times in his college career he looked pretty awful at the position.  So clearly playing QB in the NFL is not as hard as it used to be.  20 years ago no way Jalen Hurts would be a QB in the NFL, but with the changes in offenses and how it is officiated overall, tons of dudes can now play QB and do so without a ton of issues at least for a little while.  Consistency is still the hard thing to do.  But for a super high draft pick, Fields is more than a little bit of a gamble.  

Fields also had a bum hand/finger on his throwing hand from what I gather the past couple weeks.

He has an above average/good arm, high end athleticism for a QB, good touch/accuracy, and overall fits most of what I'm looking for in a QB. His processing speed/holding onto the football is an issue. He also doesn't check it down and looks for the big play too often. I'm not worried about Fields at the next level if you get a competent HC/OC to pair with him though.

[CWood21]

13 minutes ago, Counselor said:

So fields and Wilson are closer to Lawrence than Lance is to them?

Yes.  And quite frankly, I'm not even sure it's a discussion.

[.Buzz]

15 minutes ago, Counselor said:

So fields and Wilson are closer to Lawrence than Lance is to them?

How I see it personally, yes. At least right now and what I've watched.

Lance is the ultimate boom or bust guy and I have a hard time placing them. I feel very good about Fields/Wilson on a competent team that builds around them/too their strengths. I have both in my top 10.