2021 Free Agency

[Totty]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I would certainly not be opposed to that but I'm not sure if I would prefer that over Juju and NA. In today's NFL depth is key and if Golliday gets injured like he has this year that is 20 million of our cap wasted.  We had to deal with Williams being on the shelf for 2 years and that was a massive blow to this O especially in 2019 where we had nothing but bums at WR...

I respect that.  Even though we don't agree.  I would love to have a sane, healthy, willing #1.  Ju Ju is nice..  but I see a ton of Steeler games because of where I live..  he just doesn't wow me for 12 mil.  Nelly for 8 yeah ok.  I'm good with that.  

 

Our history with wide receivers is as bad as our history with LB.  We can't seem to grow them out of the draft.  Every single time we've signed a #1 or trade for one it blows up on our faces.  

No matter what we do I think we call all agree that it's an area that needs improvement.  One way or the other.  

[BackinBlack]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Because now everyone is focused on defense and thinks you can improve it by buying free agents again.

Literally less than a year ago, they made splash signings on defense and everyone was over the moon..... fast forward, they were the worst defense in franchise history lol

Teams are not built in FA. I don't see how this fan base doesn't see that. 

but just because you miss doesnt mean you stop trying??
how many WRs did we bring in before we got to Agholor?

lol what do you want us to? just bring in no FAs and carry over money?

[big_palooka]

9 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

but just because you miss doesnt mean you stop trying??
how many WRs did we bring in before we got to Agholor?

lol what do you want us to? just bring in no FAs and carry over money?

Teams that "win" in free agency, example Jacksonville rarely ever improve in the win column. 

What I want them to do is simple.... 1) have a structure and system in place that identifies the best roles and player strengths 2) DRAFT BETTER 3) stop overpaying average talent and expecting them to be more than they are.

Great teams are built in the draft. They are developed in a system and FA's fill a role for them. They are not expected to change decades of mediocrity. 

There is a reason teams like the Ravens are quiet in free agency and let FAs walk. They draft well and set themselves up to plug a hole at value. And us the compensatory pick system as a chess piece.

If you want to look at John Gruden's failure on defense, it's easy.... Hall, Key, Ferrell, Abram, Mullen, Arnett, Muse. 7 draft picks in the top 100, not a single impact player.

[Blazer026]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Teams that "win" in free agency, example Jacksonville rarely ever improve in the win column. 

What I want them to do is simple.... 1) have a structure and system in place that identifies the best roles and player strengths 2) DRAFT BETTER 3) stop overpaying average talent and expecting them to be more than they are.

Great teams are built in the draft. They are developed in a system and FA's fill a role for them. They are not expected to change decades of mediocrity. 

There is a reason teams like the Ravens are quiet in free agency and let FAs walk. They draft well and set themselves up to plug a hole at value. And us the compensatory pick system as a chess piece.

If you want to look at John Gruden's failure on defense, it's easy.... Hall, Key, Ferrell, Abram, Mullen, Arnett, Muse. 7 draft picks in the top 100, not a single impact player.

I agree that the draft is the way to go, but I just read the Bills got 13/22 of their starters not in the draft. So it can be done both ways 

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Teams that "win" in free agency, example Jacksonville rarely ever improve in the win column. 

What I want them to do is simple.... 1) have a structure and system in place that identifies the best roles and player strengths 2) DRAFT BETTER 3) stop overpaying average talent and expecting them to be more than they are.

Great teams are built in the draft. They are developed in a system and FA's fill a role for them. They are not expected to change decades of mediocrity. 

There is a reason teams like the Ravens are quiet in free agency and let FAs walk. They draft well and set themselves up to plug a hole at value. And us the compensatory pick system as a chess piece.

If you want to look at John Gruden's failure on defense, it's easy.... Hall, Key, Ferrell, Abram, Mullen, Arnett, Muse. 7 draft picks in the top 100, not a single impact player.

I definitely agree with your 1 2 and 3 and that Great teams are built through the draft.
But Gruden came in and got rid of what like 75% starters from his team in the first 2 years or something crazy right?
We have too many holes to fill on D to just do so in the draft. . . there is no reason why a team Cannot draft well and play the FA market. 

Right now the Raiders need impact players on D. Period. Regardless of the Draft or FA. We need someone who can impact a game. 
I dont want us to not try FA because we whiffed on it last year. 

just need to be smart in how you do it. 

[NYRaider]

23 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Agree esp since we took a chance on him I’m just hesitant esp if Carr is still qb cause he kinda plays favorites with wrs and “chemistry” is huge cause if carr can’t gel with you he will ignore you on game day 

Yeah, Carr definitely favors guys he has chemistry with. We should bring Agholor back but it has to be at a reasonable number because he flashed in Philly for a couple of years and then was terrible. 

[NYRaider]

19 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Teams are not built in FA. I don't see how this fan base doesn't see that. 

Definitely not but if you sign the right players it can definitely make a huge impact. Look at how the Packers were able to improve their defense by signing Preston/Za'Darius Smith and Amos in free agency. 

[MrOaktown_56]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Definitely not but if you sign the right players it can definitely make a huge impact. Look at how the Packers were able to improve their defense by signing Preston/Za'Darius Smith and Amos in free agency. 

Pay good players not middling ones.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Pay good players not middling ones.

I think one of the biggest issues with FA's we've signed is that they thrived in good defenses playing next to difference makers. Littleton/Joyner played behind Donald and that great defensive line for Wade Phillips. Kwit played in a great defense in Chicago behind a great defensive line. Collins played on a pretty decent defensive line in Dallas. And Nassib played on a stacked defensive line in Tampa Bay with Suh, JPP, Barrett etc. 

Then they got here and they're expected to be those difference makers that make life easier for complimentary players instead of being the complimentary players that shine playing next to elite guys. Guenther being a terrible coach also didn't help but yeah, the majority of Mayock's FA signings are looking pretty damn questionable. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by NYRaider

[Geezy]

22 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Because now everyone is focused on defense and thinks you can improve it by buying free agents again.

Literally less than a year ago, they made splash signings on defense and everyone was over the moon..... fast forward, they were the worst defense in franchise history lol

Teams are not built in FA. I don't see how this fan base doesn't see that. 

everyone was over the moon because we finally addressed the LB position lmao 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Geezy said:

everyone was over the moon because we finally addressed the LB position lmao 

Kwit played pretty well but Littleton completely fell off the planet this year. Guenther's scheme played a big role in that, IMO. But it's also much different being a LB playing behind a great DL and playing behind one of the worst DL's in football. 

[Geezy]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Kwit played pretty well but Littleton completely fell off the planet this year. Guenther's scheme played a big role in that, IMO. But it's also much different being a LB playing behind a great DL and playing behind one of the worst DL's in football. 

im giving Littleton a pass on last year, for the reasons your stated. But he needs a bounce back year in the worst way in 2021

[Geezy]

22 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I agree.  I think we talked about this before in that we should not pay over 8 to retain him.  

I will say that 12 for Juju and 8 for NA could round this WR group into a major threat for years.  

Would you guys be opposed to NA at 8 and Juju at 12? 

Juju, Ruggs, NA, Edwards and Renfrow would be a nice balance of speed and physicality. 

yes, because they are essentially what you drafted Ruggs and Edwards to be. im for bringing back Agholor, but mainly because Carr threw to him lol and will give Ruggs another year to grow and prove he can be who we drafted him to be. 

that and we need to build a defense lol  

[jimkelly02]

I see there being zero chance we spend 20m on WR(s).  We just don’t have the money.... plus we just spent a 1st and 3rd on Ruggs and Edwards, whom both have shown some progress.

we should just resign Agholor, to hopefully >8m on 1-2 year deal and maybe spend a 4-5th on a WR (maybe a 3rd if there’s a real real good value there)

[Geezy]

20 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Golliday is a stud but has been injured quite a bit and highly unlikely he hits the FA market. 

You bring up an interesting point though.  What would you guys want Golliday at 20 or Juju and NA for 20? 

Depth is key at the Wr position and the last thing we need is another signing like T. Williams where the guy is on the shelf for 2 years.  Juju and NA have both proven to be durable. No doubt that Golliday is a playmaker but keep in mind he will turn 28 mid way through next season leaving his "prime window" much shorter than the Juju/ NA combo.

Allen Robinson, hed be top flight with DC, fits like a glove.