Expectations for 2nd year QBs

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, sryan66611 said:

I dunno...   this is exaggerated right?    Lance is not on the same level as Lamar as far as running ability.  Did you see that play at the goal line where Trey had a bootleg and got smashed by Simmons and not get in?    Pretty sure Lamar is getting that with his speed or agility to make someone miss which Trey lacks.  I highly doubt Trey evens runs a 4.5.  I would bet he is closer to high 6 low 4.7.   I would bet Lamar probably runs a 4.4/4.5 or close to it.

Accuracy also seemed like a concern with Trey Lance when I watched him and of the few plays I saw him make. Watch that clip below

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOcrGtTXoSUSk_qpEIeiMGwmrgTZSoYpZ

He is definitely #2 in the NFL in terms of running ability behind Lamar. Murray is too small to do it consistently and stay healthy. As for Lamar, he definitely does not match Lance in arm strength or passing IQ. 

As for Mechanics, these are things that are worked on. Everything else cannot be worked on. 

[sryan66611]

16 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

He is definitely #2 in the NFL in terms of running ability behind Lamar. Murray is too small to do it consistently and stay healthy. As for Lamar, he definitely does not match Lance in arm strength or passing IQ. 

As for Mechanics, these are things that are worked on. Everything else cannot be worked on. 

I agree as far as arm strength Lance has a great arm.   Just has to learn how to do it more accurately as you saw in that clip he thew on the run and overthrew the receiver with an easy int.   That's an easy throw he should have make consistently.

 

I honestly think you are overrating Trey Lance's running ability but I guess we will find out this season once he is the full time starter

[malak1]

26 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

He is definitely #2 in the NFL in terms of running ability behind Lamar.

Based on what exactly?

[Forge]

33 minutes ago, sryan66611 said:

I dunno...   this is exaggerated right?    Lance is not on the same level as Lamar as far as running ability.  Did you see that play at the goal line where Trey had a bootleg and got smashed by Simmons and not get in?    Pretty sure Lamar is getting that with his speed or agility to make someone miss which Trey lacks.  I highly doubt Trey evens runs a 4.5.  I would bet he is closer to high 6 low 4.7.   I would bet Lamar probably runs a 4.4/4.5 or close to it.

 

He was clocked via GPS at 21 MPH in game which would usually give you far better than a 4.5. Whether it's accurate or not is another story, but that was what was whispered about in the lead up to the draft. 

Quote

The defensive tackle lunging at Lance's ankles had no shot. Nor did the safety who soon realized he'd taken the wrong angle. And after two key blocks from his receivers downfield, Lance was into the end zone for a 44-yard touchdown that proved to be the insurance score the Bison needed to secure the 28-20 win over James Madison and a national title.

Lance later learned the GPS tracker he was wearing clocked him at 21.54 mph on that run, his fastest speed of the season

Kaep ran a 4.53 at the combine. 

Mac Jones ran a 4.68 at his pro day (the second at 4.72). 

He's definitely not high 4.6's or 4.7. 

 

[Forge]

That's not to say that I think that Lance woudl be the second best running QB behind Lamar. If anyone from that class is going to steal that title, I feel like it's going to be Fields. If Lance is anything in that regard, I feel like it will be a lesser version of Josh Allen because Lance tries to run through people far too often. 

I also don't anticipate that's what Shanahan wants with regards to the runs. He ran 16 times in his first start, mostly designed runs, because I don't think that Shanahan knew what he could do passing the football. It was a very high school gameplan. But Shanahan wants a pocket passer who can play off structure when the need arises (though likely still someone who is moving around behind the line then just taking off every time), but he wants a pocket passer first and foremost, so that is what Lance is going to be. He'll have some nice scrambles when the pocket breaks down, but I don't see a great deal of random designed run usage for him at various parts of the field. They will be very specific. I think that Shanahan will have that on 3rd / 4th and short situations and redzone options because it's a great way to create even more misdirection and force the defense to spread thin. 

Even that play where he got stomped at the goal line that @sryan66611 referred to...in the future, I'd be willing to be that is a pass. He has two leaks, Dwelley and Juice, that he just misses. Hopefully it's a rookie thing and in the future he's going to process that all faster (it also involved just a tad bit of bad luck because the interior line gets blown up and Juice gets just a bit tripped up, delaying his route out of the backfield and I'm pretty sure he was the primary while Dwelley may have been the last option in the route tree). But in the future, this will be a pass (random arbitrary high number) percent of the time

 

[BayRaider]

31 minutes ago, malak1 said:

Based on what exactly?

Have you watched zero film on Trey Lance and how explosive and how fast of a runner he is? 

Expect to be in shock this year if you haven’t. 

I’ll take Lance as my QB1 in the 10th Round of most drafts I do this year as he’s insane value for that range due to his running ability alone. 

[sryan66611]

20 minutes ago, Forge said:

That's not to say that I think that Lance woudl be the second best running QB behind Lamar. If anyone from that class is going to steal that title, I feel like it's going to be Fields. If Lance is anything in that regard, I feel like it will be a lesser version of Josh Allen because Lance tries to run through people far too often. 

I also don't anticipate that's what Shanahan wants with regards to the runs. He ran 16 times in his first start, mostly designed runs, because I don't think that Shanahan knew what he could do passing the football. It was a very high school gameplan. But Shanahan wants a pocket passer who can play off structure when the need arises (though likely still someone who is moving around behind the line then just taking off every time), but he wants a pocket passer first and foremost, so that is what Lance is going to be. He'll have some nice scrambles when the pocket breaks down, but I don't see a great deal of random designed run usage for him at various parts of the field. They will be very specific. I think that Shanahan will have that on 3rd / 4th and short situations and redzone options because it's a great way to create even more misdirection and force the defense to spread thin. 

Even that play where he got stomped at the goal line that @sryan66611 referred to...in the future, I'd be willing to be that is a pass. He has two leaks, Dwelley and Juice, that he just misses. Hopefully it's a rookie thing and in the future he's going to process that all faster (it also involved just a tad bit of bad luck because the interior line gets blown up and Juice gets just a bit tripped up, delaying his route out of the backfield and I'm pretty sure he was the primary while Dwelley may have been the last option in the route tree). But in the future, this will be a pass (random arbitrary high number) percent of the time

 

Agreed...   that's what had me confused because I see Lance as a Josh Allen bigger type of runner who wants to run through guys instead of evade them.   That could also be the reason why I thought he was slower because the way he runs compared to Josh Allen as he is a 4.6 guy.    Either way I think Lance will be good and it will be fun to see how he improves throughout this season.   

[malak1]

30 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Have you watched zero film on Trey Lance and how explosive and how fast of a runner he is? 

Expect to be in shock this year if you haven’t. 

I’ll take Lance as my QB1 in the 10th Round of most drafts I do this year as he’s insane value for that range due to his running ability alone. 

Film from college?

[KingOfNewYork]

I think Lance will be really good mainly because of Shanahan’s creativity. 

Mac Jones will be solid at worst simply due to the structure around him. Has New England said who’s calling plays?

Lawrence should take steps simply being out of Meyer’s grips, can’t think about how much that environment didn’t help anyone at all there. 

Wilson should continue on his upward trajectory now that the game has slowed down for him. He showed a ton of growth towards the end of the year and has more talent around him going into year 2 so production wise we should see growth but overall his game should be fine regardless of who he’s throwing to.

Fields is boo boo but we’ll see how he looks in heat 2, doesn’t have much around him at all but good players will be good players regardless.

[biggie.]

Lance is the single most overhyped QB I have ever seen. Has done absolutely nothing besides stink it up during practice and preseason yet everyone thinks he's a top 5 QB cuz of arbitrary "physical tools".

Edited May 27, 2022 by biggie.

[AkronsWitness]

42 minutes ago, biggie. said:

Lance is the single most overhyped QB I have ever seen. Has done absolutely nothing besides absolutely stink it up during practice and preseason yet everyone thinks he's a top 5 QB cuz of arbitrary "physical tools".

You would have fun then going over to the Draft board and see how people talk about Malik Willis aka. the second coming of Willie Beamin

[Forge]

3 hours ago, biggie. said:

Lance is the single most overhyped QB I have ever seen. Has done absolutely nothing besides absolutely stink it up during practice and preseason yet everyone thinks he's a top 5 QB cuz of arbitrary "physical tools".

Its really been just two people?

There have been just as many that have said that they aren't even sure he's going to start this year. One even implied the 49ers were tanking by moving off Jimmy to start Lance. 

Not really a lot there to make him the most overhyped QB anyone has ever seen. Bayraider has had this belief since the draft...two random starts in year 1 after jumping from FCS to the NFL after basically a year off is unlikely to change his perspective. 

[thrILL!]

On 4/13/2022 at 9:10 AM, stl4life07 said:

I think when it’s all said and done the Pats will see that while Jones is decent he isn’t a difference maker and thus I can see him not making it to his 2nd contract with the Pats and they will be looking for a real franchise QB if they want any shot to compete

Ppl have been underestimating Mac every step of the way.  Even after a rookie season that surpassed expectations, any credit whatsoever is begrudgingly given at best by so many fans.  The kid is legit. 

[stl4life07]

13 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Ppl have been underestimating Mac every step of the way.  Even after a rookie season that surpassed expectations, any credit whatsoever is begrudgingly given at best by so many fans.  The kid is legit. 

Ok so even if I’m underestimating Jones or people in general are, do you think he will play at a high enough level to compete with the top QBs in the AFC like Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, and Russ? Combined with the fact all those elite top QBs have elite type weapons around them and Jones doesn’t.

So either Jones have to truly take that big next step to be in the conversation as those QBs I just named or he need elite type weapons like we see the Dolphins are putting around Tua to help elevate him to appear to be closer to the top than what he otherwise is as a stand alone talent at QB. If I’m the Pats I would try to go after Deebo or AJ Brown or Metcalf if any of them become available. The Pats ceiling isn’t going to be high bc of how great the AFC has become. If Jones proves me wrong over the course of the next few seasons I’ll admit it but it’s something I got to see bc I have my doubts about him. 

[Forge]

24 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Ppl have been underestimating Mac every step of the way.  Even after a rookie season that surpassed expectations, any credit whatsoever is begrudgingly given at best by so many fans.  The kid is legit. 

Don't think that the problem is whether or not he's legit. It's always been about the ceiling.